Paper patch and grease groove bullets

fleener said:

I thought that perhaps it would be appropriate for a discussion on these, other than round ball projectiles.

I am going to post some different picture of what I use and some of what others use.

I am hoping that the boys from Idaho, UT, England, TN and others will feel free to post what they use and share their experience.

Fleener

This first picture is of a .50 cal GG bullet that I use for hunting. The mold is customized by a buddy.

View attachment 5441



Here is a GG in .45 cal. I mostly use these for hunting. I do not get much expansion on a whitetail deer, and I use pure lead.

1. View attachment 5442

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What weight are the 50 caliber bullets, they look similar to the no excuse 600 grain 50 caliber that I use, the no excuse is not a hollowpoint though

My 50 cal bullets are 460 grain. My 45's are 408 grains.

Idaho Ron

When you mention the hardness, are you using tin? What does that equate to ratio of lead/tin?

For target work, my pointy bullet is around 20 to 1. Hunting mine are mostly pure lead, with just a little tin to help it cast well.

Fleener

fleener said:

Idaho Ron

When you mention the hardness, are you using tin? What does that equate to ratio of lead/tin?

For target work, my pointy bullet is around 20 to 1. Hunting mine are mostly pure lead, with just a little tin to help it cast well.

Fleener

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Actually I use reclaimed shot or dental lead to harden. I add 1000 grains per 10 pounds of pure when I melt the pigs down to make ingot. Once I start casting bullets I get the temp up on the mould where I am making good bullets. Then I cool them down with air from my compressor. For my 50's I aim for about .038 to .040 on my cabine tree tester. I normally have to add some more to get to where I want it to be.
I usually have several hundred on hand. They are tested again after they have aged. Alloy will harden with age. This alloy has been pretty good about staying the same.
My harder alloy for my 45 will age harden a bit but since it is still fairly soft it doesn't harden that much.
My stainless green mountain barrels seem to like a little harder bullet. After finding the bullet that shot well then I started playing with hardness to tune in the group's.

My .50 cal hollow points are 519 grains.

For a Iowa deer, I have little to know expansion on bullets. They blow right through. Never retrieved one.

I use pure lead for these hunting bullets. I wonder if they are not traveling fast enough as the reason for lack of expansion.

Fleener

Do you cool down all your bullets with a air compressor?

If so, why?

thanks

Fleener

fleener said:

My .50 cal hollow points are 519 grains.

For a Iowa deer, I have little to know expansion on bullets. They blow right through. Never retrieved one.

I use pure lead for these hunting bullets. I wonder if they are not traveling fast enough as the reason for lack of expansion.

Fleener

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I shoot pure lead at deer in MS and have always shot through them. No exceptions. Even shoulder shots past 100 yards. Figure it’s the inertia of big bullets on thin skinned game. And this with hollow points. Would love to know what the bullet looks like after.

fleener said:

Do you cool down all your bullets with a air compressor?

If so, why?

thanks

Fleener

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Only the ones I am testing for hardness. Some guys will quinch them but that will harden them if they have alloy in them.

fleener said:

My .50 cal hollow points are 519 grains.

For a Iowa deer, I have little to know expansion on bullets. They blow right through. Never retrieved one.

I use pure lead for these hunting bullets. I wonder if they are not traveling fast enough as the reason for lack of expansion.

Fleener

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They should be going fast enough to open up.
This picture is of a 410 gr Hornady great plains bullet. It was retrieved from a deer.



This is another 410 gr bullet from the same deer I shot.



They are really soft as far as lead goes. My cabine tree tester has them at .027
5 BHN is soft and the range is .020 to .030
In my opinion they were too soft for good penetration. I do not recommend Hornady 385 hollow points for this reason. If the 410 gr solid points open up this much the 385 would not be good.
This bullet is my PP 45. These are hardened to 8 or 8.5 BHN. This bullet was shot by my son. He shot the deer at close range. The buck jumped out and he had a shot going away quartering hard. The bullet went in the flank and was found in the neck.



I have only found one of my 50 cal bullets. It hit a cow elk in the shoulder at 60 yards. The bullet was in the flank on the off side. That was a ton of penetration.

The 385 gr hornady Great Plains is what I’ve been shooting in .50 cal. Is that one that you have tested hardness on? Feels plenty soft
While loading but consistently passes right through

Yes I have tested both the 385's and the 410. They are really accurate bullets. The 410's were dropped from Hornady's line up. The 385 is still there but I do not recommend them. For deer on broad side shots they would work. For elk I do not recommend them at all.

I "think" that the Hornady bullets are pure lead. I have been to and toured their plant twice over the years. Nice visit if you ever get in that part of NE.

Fleener

Yes they are about as pure as it gets.

at the plant they melt down the lead into big cylinders of lead. They put those lead cylinders in a press and extrude lead rope that is wound on a spool. Those different dia. lead ropes are used then for the different bullet that they extrude from the bullet presses.

Fleener

Brent said:

Cannonball1 -

When you say you glue the ends, are you referring to under the base of your bullet? What do you use for glue?

I have never tried your method, but it was well accepted back in the day. I just could never understand how I could keep the paper on the bullet when loading.

I'd love to hear and see some about your methods. What glue, what diameter bullet, thickness and brand of paper, finished bullet size, and size of barrel bore? Tell us lots more.

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Brent,
I'm sorry I didn't answer all of your questions before: the glue is any white glue, the bullet diameter is .442, any brand of rag computer paper with the thickness that fits the gun best. I am using both 20# and 24# depending on the rifle used. Different Lots of paper are different so I mic them - .0035 to .0040 again depending on the gun, I size my bullets to .442. I am thinking of going up to a .443 with lighter paper to see what that will do. One thing I have done is to knurl the bullets with a file, then resize again to .442. When looking at them through magnification you can see a small tooth left on the bullets which would delete any slippage between the paper and bullet. Love to experiment. Will let you know how it turns out. Beastly weather has kept me off the range all winter and will not let up. All barrels are close to .450 lands, and .458 grove diameter.
.

Brent, Glue the center of the paper only. Don't glue the base of the bullet. When you done you can pull the slip cover PP off the bullet.

cannonball1 said:

Brent, Glue the center of the paper only. Don't glue the base of the bullet. When you done you can pull the slip cover PP off the bullet.

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I'm going to give this a try one day. Even if just for fun. I would like to try cross patching too someday.

Regarding the paper folding onto the base of the bullet. I have just seen a method that is so simple; which is the mark of a truly great idea. It uses one of those sticky paper disks like the ones used on targets to cover the holes. Hold the gathered paper (ie. not twisted but kept short enough not to meet in the middle, quite) and stick it all together by sticking one of those disks on the base. When I go back to my old MH rifle I will be giving that a go. [Note to self. Must get a smooth paper patch bullet mould]

BTW lightly smearing the paper, once formed, with a touch of Jojoba oil (in lieu of the old sperm oil which it matches as a liquid wax) did the job for me in a slightly rough bore.

Good stuff. I have not done it yet but there is hope.

idaho ron, some one on another post just said he has never heard of you, guess he has been hiding under a old wash tub most of his life.