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Musket replicas with non-drilled vent tubes

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mrstang01

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Are these supposed to just have the vent tube drilled when you receive it, and it is then a usable weapon? How hard is it to drill the vent tube?
 
One good thing about drilling your touch hole, you can put it in the right place/location. As to the usability of these guns, that's another big long drawn out conversation. !!! Drilling it is as easy as...drilling a hole. Locating it for best ignition involves some knowledge.
 
I have always required that the touch-hole be drilled prior to my becoming the owner, even when it comes to imported pieces. In fact when it comes to muskets, I often get them "reenactment ready", meaning not only do they have a drilled touch-hole, but there is a flash guard installed on the lock as well. ;)

I know some folks get undrilled touch-holes when they live in Europe, as most of those countries require you to pay for the proof testing IF you have an unproofed piece with a drilled touch-hole. There is a time limit to comply to get it done. Plus I am told there is a hefty fine if you're found with an unproofed musket with the touch-hole drilled. If you're not ready to pay for the testing just yet, OR if you are just buying a wall hanger, then why go through that hassle ??

I only buy a piece from the seller which is intended to be fired and sold to me "ready to fire", for if I drilled the touch hole, then I have converted it from "non-firing" to "firing". Having done that, if for some reason the barrel failed when shooting and people were harmed, I'm responsible for "converting" the piece, not necessarily the seller of the undrilled gun.

LD
 
Those guns offered by discriminating general and loyalist arms come out of the same factories in India. however DG will tell you not to drill a touch hole.
No gun is idiot proof, but when the seller says don’t shoot it maybe you want to look elsewhere.
Repeated testing have shown Indian guns are safe to shoot.
 
I have always required that the touch-hole be drilled prior to my becoming the owner, even when it comes to imported pieces. In fact when it comes to muskets, I often get them "reenactment ready", meaning not only do they have a drilled touch-hole, but there is a flash guard installed on the lock as well. ;)

I know some folks get undrilled touch-holes when they live in Europe, as most of those countries require you to pay for the proof testing IF you have an unproofed piece with a drilled touch-hole. There is a time limit to comply to get it done. Plus I am told there is a hefty fine if you're found with an unproofed musket with the touch-hole drilled. If you're not ready to pay for the testing just yet, OR if you are just buying a wall hanger, then why go through that hassle ??

I only buy a piece from the seller which is intended to be fired and sold to me "ready to fire", for if I drilled the touch hole, then I have converted it from "non-firing" to "firing". Having done that, if for some reason the barrel failed when shooting and people were harmed, I'm responsible for "converting" the piece, not necessarily the seller of the undrilled gun.

LD


If you buy a non-drilled musket, sold as a decorator or just a marching around the fields shoulder decoration kind of thing, then they are free, in some European countries, from any form of registration. In fact, in most European countries they can be sold to anybody over age 18. However, drilling them through so that they can be fired, in SOME countries, like the UK, requires that they are registered on some kind of license, or, in UK, certificate. Failure to have such a gun - classed as a shotgun here in UK because of the smooth bore - on a shotgun certificate, can be the cause of endless trouble, But only IF it is the only one you have. Once you have a shotgun certificate here in UK, for a gun with a barrel more than 24" long, you can have as many as you like, or can afford.

The BIG non-no is then selling it to another person without Proof with a capital P. That IS a serious offence, with massive fines and usually seizure of the gun for destruction. ALL shootable firearms in the European countries signed up to the CIP MUST be Proofed before being sold to a third party, and the burden of that falls on the owner to have it done, and yes, it costs money, but not very much.

If I had a custom gun made in the USA, it would be 'proofed' by the builder, and I could shoot it. But if I then tired of it and wanted to sell it to another person, I would have to pay to have it Proofed. That is the law, and has been so since around the time of King Henry VIII.
 
I guess for re-enactment it does not matter where the touch hole is, or how slow the ignition is, as the piece is just a smoke and noise making device. If one plans to shoot or hunt with the piece then there is a science as to locating the hole for fast ignition.
 
If you buy a non-drilled musket, sold as a decorator or just a marching around the fields shoulder decoration kind of thing, then they are free, in some European countries, from any form of registration. In fact, in most European countries they can be sold to anybody over age 18. However, drilling them through so that they can be fired, in SOME countries, like the UK, requires that they are registered on some kind of license, or, in UK, certificate. Failure to have such a gun - classed as a shotgun here in UK because of the smooth bore - on a shotgun certificate, can be the cause of endless trouble, But only IF it is the only one you have. Once you have a shotgun certificate here in UK, for a gun with a barrel more than 24" long, you can have as many as you like, or can afford.

The BIG non-no is then selling it to another person without Proof with a capital P. That IS a serious offence, with massive fines and usually seizure of the gun for destruction. ALL shootable firearms in the European countries signed up to the CIP MUST be Proofed before being sold to a third party, and the burden of that falls on the owner to have it done, and yes, it costs money, but not very much.

If I had a custom gun made in the USA, it would be 'proofed' by the builder, and I could shoot it. But if I then tired of it and wanted to sell it to another person, I would have to pay to have it Proofed. That is the law, and has been so since around the time of King Henry VIII.
My loads are so hot, my gun is proofed each time I fire it. Just kidding. Just a joke. Not really. :) Smiley face.
 
I have a flintlock musket from each of the Canadian dealers. The Loyalist Arms musket was ready to shoot. Besides drilling the vent hole they tune the lock, as in frizzen hardened and internal surfaces smoothed. The Discriminating General musket wasn't ready to shoot, hence the lower price. I sent it to my smith and he drilled the vent hole, extended and cleaned breech plug threads and tuned the lock. If I ever purchase another Indian musket I will go with Loyalist Arms because in the end it was cheaper.
 
I guess for re-enactment it does not matter where the touch hole is, or how slow the ignition is, as the piece is just a smoke and noise making device. If one plans to shoot or hunt with the piece then there is a science as to locating the hole for fast ignition.

Here in yUK, if you have a drilled-through firearm, so that you can 're-enact' with a live-firer, it HAS to be registered as a shotgun. That is the law. As I pointed out, after acquiring a shotgun certificate, you can have any number of this kind of smooth-bore firearms, providing that the barrel is 24" or more.
 
All of them that have came through my shop have been absolute junk, I won't touch them,Poorly constructed and poor inletting with barrels made out of questionable materials, poorly breeched barrels. No way I would put one against my shoulder and pull the trigger.
I have seen posts on the net where the barrels on these things have blown with blank charges. Do a google search on something like India gun fail, or something similar, I'm sure you'll find some interesting stuff.
 
Well there has only been one (1) documented case of an Indian made Bess musket having a barrel failure. ONE that I have seen. LOTS of claims of "several"...yet the claimants have not been able to produce information as to the actual event, except for the one that I reference. In spite of repeated requests for the information. Lots of annecdotal talk, but no actual facts. It was a loading error by the shooter, not a defect in the barrel. A "training scar" that has crept into the ranks of reenactors.

There have been several claims of a second failure, but due to the nature of rumors, that "second" event was not a barrel failure, but a reenactor with a cloth shooting bag having cartridges, and an ember landed on the bag, burned through to a cartridge and FOOOF! (Folks with cloth shooting bags are supposed to have a leather case with a flap, within the cloth bag when carrying cartridges ;)) It apparently was a rather spectacular accident, with only minor burns to the affected persons.

The procedure for a musket misfire where you have a flash-in-the-pan is that you prick the touch hole, and feel for the powder, then reprime, and dump the rest of that next cartridge onto the ground, and try to fire. You don't "secure your firelock" [dump the contents of the barrel onto the ground] until you are done with the shooting demo or battle. What we saw and see is a lot of fellows who "secure" and then begin the loading sequence again. They don't want to risk a possible double charge. A double charge sometimes still happens and is preferable to ruining a gun and/or injury. What "securing" and reloading can do is cause the shooter to coat the ash in the now present in a previously fired musket barrel with a layer of fresh powder. IF some of that powder clumps above the breech and is detonated, it acts as a barrel obstruction and can bulge or split the barrel open. IF the reenactor just swabbed the barrel with a rust preventative, and loads, misfires, and "secures" a couple of times, clumping in the barrel can also occur as the fresh powder adheres to some of the rust preventative, and cause the same result. In the lone example, that is what is believed to have happened, as the breech did not fail, and was in place, but the barrel split from about 12" above the breech, forward and backward a short distance along it's length.

I have been told that there were several failures of rifle barrels shooting live rounds, in India origin 1853 Enfield rifled muskets, but although requested, I've never seen documention of the locations, dates, and where "in India" the barrels were made or thought to have been made...

Please note there are more documented cases of a single model of CVA rifle barrels, having already been to an actual proofing house in Spain, failing, than Indian Bess musket barrels failing. A lot more.

LD
 
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Loyalist Dave's post is spot on.

Some folks regard Chrysler products as junk, some Ford, Some Chevy - they're all junk & unfit to own or drive. Some folks don't like brown-eyed women, or blue eyed, some fear redheads. All can give you their opinions, citing An Example. None are actually founded on much more than personal bias.

I have has several Indian made muskets, and they are minimally finished - all need better fitting and wood work. All but one from Middlesex were mechanically sound, and even that one was fixable to be a reliable shooter.

Buy an Indian musket, but be aware that if you want to make it look nice, you'll need to work on the wood, shaping and properly finishing it.
 
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Venting Indian muskets you really need to be a gun smith or have the experience a drill press for sure .The proper drill bits .Almost with out exception on 8 long land pattern Brown Bess muskets that came though my shop the Breech plugs were to deep by average of quarter of an inch this requires removal of the breech plug and drilling a 3/8 hole into the face of the breech plug a 1/4 deep or so not to worry the breech plugs are better and deeper than the originals and every bit as good as the much overrated Pedersoli s. Unless you have done this work its best to get one ready to go from Loyalist arms ,Middlesex Village trading or Veteran arms these guys know what they are doing and do quality work.As far as Indian Muskets go They are actually very good have worked on them I am Real Gun smith about 50 years of it never had one blow up the usual problems in common with other brands re harden frizzens adjust locks etc .If properly set up and tuned are as safe and reliable as any on the market including Pedersoli All of the Indian Matchlocks are excellent if you like that kind thig.
 
I used to sell the Indian Muskets I often bought ones that had faults or deemed faults by unrealistic customers .I would repair , reshape the stocks ,work up the locks into a positive fire risk get them proofed & they ALL stood proof fine . I would engrave ' Crown GR 'if decent &' Dublin Castle' if so so but if rough they got' Rappa Forge' or Maybe' Liberty or Deth ' .They where so sought after I had buyers chase me for them, & Dixons bought one to have an example .
.My own Reenactment musket was comprised of a broken stock .A barrel that didn't belong it & the lock from a third. I added the right side plate & a composite fore pipe .And it served me very well for years . The cobblers kid is allways the poorest shod..
.You could make your own gun ,what you couldn't do is sell ,give, hire, whatever to any one unprooved except to a dealer with a Registered Firearms dealers liscence .
Rudyard
 

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