Getting Cleaning Jag stuck in my barrel...

WVAED · Feb 15, 2019

curator said:
99% of the time a cleaning rod gets stuck in the breech are of the barrel it is because they are using a DRY PATCH on a bore with fouling. A squirt of water will dampen the patch and it will come out like magic! I have two .36 Seneca rifles and their is no way a .36 jag is going to enter into the breech chamber. Using the right size and thickness of cleaning patches is half the formula for wiping the bore. the other half is the correct amount of moisture in the patch. Let the wiping patches dry out on the bench and soon you will get your cleaning rod stuck in the breech.

Ok, the jag is entering the breech chamber, these pics are evidence of that. I wonder what would be the best way to clean the area without getting a jag stuck. I did file and sand the jag to remove the sharp corners, perhaps that will help.

Newtire · Feb 15, 2019

Now I know to file down the jag. I was getting mine stuck too. A brush is another no no. About thought I was going to have one break off trying to get it out.

curator · Feb 15, 2019

My two .36 Senecas are very early 2XX serial number guns that was supplied with a breech plug wrench. I have in the past, removed their breech plugs and measured the "breech chambers." They are the same diameter as the one on my .32 Cherokee; .285." I suppose it is possible that yours was made with a larger chamber or that someone enlarged it. Thompson Center did make a lot of small changes to these guns while under production. Unless the patch/jag is entering into the breech chamber with force, it should come back out without jamming. There are a lot of factors at play here and without inspecting every one of them we are all only offering our personal experience to help you with this problem. I strongly suspect your choice of patching material and its condition (wet/damp/dry) is the culprit. Your jag might actually be a bit too small with your current patching.

I set up ALL my muzzle loading wiping/cleaning equipment to be used with unbleached cotton muslin cloth. I do not use flannel, old bed-sheets, or in particular; old T-shirt material. Washed, unbleached cotton muslin is thin enough to slide past the fouling but (if properly proportioned to bore size) will bunch up on the upstroke and pull fouling from the bore. It is also very absorbent. It is used slightly but uniformly damp. Since you are new to the sport, you will find there are a lot of details you will have to work out for your particular gun to develop a system that works for you. Most of what advice you will get is how things work for us--YMMV.

WVAED · Feb 15, 2019

curator said:
My two .36 Senecas are very early 2XX serial number guns that was supplied with a breech plug wrench. I have in the past, removed their breech plugs and measured the "breech chambers." They are the same diameter as the one on my .32 Cherokee; .285." I suppose it is possible that yours was made with a larger chamber or that someone enlarged it. Thompson Center did make a lot of small changes to these guns while under production. Unless the patch/jag is entering into the breech chamber with force, it should come back out without jamming. There are a lot of factors at play here and without inspecting every one of them we are all only offering our personal experience to help you with this problem. I strongly suspect your choice of patching material and its condition (wet/damp/dry) is the culprit. Your jag might actually be a bit too small with your current patching.

I set up ALL my muzzle loading wiping/cleaning equipment to be used with unbleached cotton muslin cloth. I do not use flannel, old bed-sheets, or in particular; old T-shirt material. Washed, unbleached cotton muslin is thin enough to slide past the fouling but (if properly proportioned to bore size) will bunch up on the upstroke and pull fouling from the bore. It is also very absorbent. It is used slightly but uniformly damp. Since you are new to the sport, you will find there are a lot of details you will have to work out for your particular gun to develop a system that works for you. Most of what advice you will get is how things work for us--YMMV.

Thanks friend. I am not actually new to the sport, I have been shooting these guns for a long time. The first question, I called a Noob question because it seemed so Noobish. Having said that, I am no expert at all nor am I nearly as experienced or knowledgeable as most are on this forum. I spent most of my time with flintlocks. This never happens with them, as you know, the cleaning jag / patch hits the face of the breech plug, no issue with a channel in the plug. Anyway, thanks for everyone's help on this issue with this new to me rifle.
As far as jamming it in to get it stuck, that may be the case. It does seem to me, without a bore camera that the channel in the breech plug must have a ledge of some kind for the jag to catch as it does. I may have to invest in one or borrow one to have a proper look. This Seneca is older as well. It doesn't even say Seneca on the barrel, I believe it is what i have seen called pre-warning. Thanks.

Melnic · Feb 15, 2019

This is giving me good ideas. I have a Traditions Crockett .32 on its way and I read a review about a "step" at the breech in the barrel.
I already had plans to file the jag on a drill press but now I see I may have to taper the front more than I thought.

SmokepoleSam · Feb 15, 2019

I had it happen to a .40 cal green mtn barrel and broke the jag off at the brass threads, (don't use brass threads, they can break)

.
I removed the breechplug and got the jag out. Now I use a .32cal jag to clean the patent breech and when swabbing the barrel I make sure that I don't push down too hard when I get to the breech.

Rifleman1776 · Feb 15, 2019

edmelott said:
the cleaning jag / patch hits the face of the breech plug,

Not perzactly correct with the TC, or similar, breech style. In your case the end of the jag is not hitting anything. The first rim on the end of the jag is jamming in the tapered breech. First, I would order a new jag. You can never have too many. Then while that is on the way, I would grind off the first rim on your present jag and try it. From the picture, I have a feeling you won't even need the new jag when it comes.

WVAED · Feb 15, 2019

When I mentioned the jag/patch hitting the face of the breech plug, I was indicating in my flintlock. There is no doubt about that. I built the rifle and it is just a flat breech face. The only typical issue is if the touch hole liner is not filed correctly it could get into the chamber and allow cleaning patches to snag on it. I will try filing the front ring off of the jag. Thanks

bore_butter · Feb 15, 2019

I have a 70's tc .36cal. Seneca with the original tapered jag that came with the rifle. I have had it get caught in the breech area many times so bad that it took many tries to get it free. I too think the patch material is balling up behind the jag and hanging.
we clean our bifocals with Zeiss lens wipe papers. we use so many that I dry them out and use those on the jags to clean my rifles. they are one tough paper material and measure .0045. they are perfect for applying oil on the barrel as they render no lint.
using those cleaning paper material, I have never hung the jag on that rifle since.

hinamanra · Feb 15, 2019

edmelott said:
Never thought about that. I just googled it and found one of the originals unopened for 10 bucks shipped. Looks like it will work much better.

Get that T/C jag and you wont have any more problems. That's the only jag I use in My T/C .45. It's still gets really tight the last 1/4" before it bottoms out in the powder chamber and sometimes sticks with a dry patch but pulls out with a little effort.

Grenadier1758 · Feb 16, 2019

We have mentioned the T/C stepped jag.

I have one virtually brand new. I don't like jags with brass threads. I thought that you might like to know the measurements for my 50 caliber jag.

Shooting the rifle I used a standard button jag with steel shank. I would normally wipe the bore between shots. To keep the breech clean, I would run a damp patch to the breech and fire a cap. Most of the built up fouling would be lodged in the patch to be pulled out.

Idaholewis · Feb 17, 2019

I have never had an issue with my patched jag getting stuck in either of my 2 .36 Cal Seneca’s

As for the Jag entering the Patented breech, A regular flat front Jag simply can NOT, TC’s Step design could, But i stil don’t see it getting stuck? The only times i have ever Stuck a Patched Jag was with a Dry Patch (1 time Rookie mistake, Lesson learned

) And a Badly pitted bore of a .50 Cal TC Renegade i was trying to Salvage, I used a 1/4-28 Grease Zerk to Push the Stuck Jag Free

I ended up using the Breech of the Badly pitted 50 Cal TC Renegade for educational purposes, So that folks could see what they were working with, Here is a look like inside (Patented Breech/Fire Channel)

As you can see, you are not gonna enter the Patented Breech with Flat front Patched Jag

TC made a Patented Breech Scraping Tool for their unique shaped Patented Breeches, But as long as you properly clean your Bore I don’t believe these are of any use? I have yet to get any Crud out using this. Proper cleaning is the Key, You can clearly see here how the Tool fits the Patented Breech

WVAED · Feb 17, 2019

Thanks for these pictures. I have been looking all over the internet for exactly this type of pic. If you refer to my earlier pictures, you can see that my cleaning jag appears to go a little further. I have it on the outside, so it is impossible to tell. Also, if i might say, that jag you are using looks to be pretty big, bigger than could be used. It looks bore size. Thanks for these pictures, now i have a lot more knowledge of the patented breech system. Awesome.

WVAED · Feb 17, 2019

I bought a .32 jag and put a patch (with a little barricade on it) and tried to get it to wedge in the breech and it never some much as offered to get stuck. I think I'm going to stick with it for now.

Idaholewis · Feb 17, 2019

edmelott said:
Thanks for these pictures. I have been looking all over the internet for exactly this type of pic. If you refer to my earlier pictures, you can see that my cleaning jag appears to go a little further. I have it on the outside, so it is impossible to tell. Also, if i might say, that jag you are using looks to be pretty big, bigger than could be used. It looks bore size. Thanks for these pictures, now i have a lot more knowledge of the patented breech system. Awesome.

My cleaning Jag in the photo is for .50 Cal, it measures .470 and is all i use for my Numerous .50 Cals. It goes in And comes back out very easy.

If your Jag is slightly small it will go down easy, But come back HARD, if your bore is less than perfect it can be REALLY hard coming back. You are better with a Proper fitting Jag, Like my .50 Photo Above that you say looks tight

Idaholewis · Feb 17, 2019

edmelott said:
I bought a .32 jag and put a patch (with a little barricade on it) and tried to get it to wedge in the breech and it never some much as offered to get stuck. I think I'm going to stick with it for now.

This little 32 Jag won’t get stuck, But Going this Small you are not doing much Cleaning

oldwolf · Feb 18, 2019

Great pictures, thanks for positing. Do you know if the Green Mountain breeches, the ones put on IBS T/C barrels, follow the same profile?

bang · Feb 18, 2019

Perhaps a burr on inside of chamber where enrty hole is.

mwsalter · Feb 18, 2019

Melnic said:
This is giving me good ideas. I have a Traditions Crockett .32 on its way and I read a review about a "step" at the breech in the barrel.
I already had plans to file the jag on a drill press but now I see I may have to taper the front more than I thought.

I have a Traditions Crocket .32, and I have gotten the jag stuck a time or two. I resorted to running a patch most of the way, then switching to a slotted jag to finish. Maybe I’ll try tapering the end of the jag.

Thanks for all theideas guys.

Idaholewis · Feb 18, 2019

oldwolf said:
Great pictures, thanks for positing. Do you know if the Green Mountain breeches, the ones put on IBS T/C barrels, follow the same profile?

No they are slightly different, the Ante Chamber/Patented Breech is Larger in the Green Mountain Breech Plugs, i actually have a brand New 1 Handy, along side a TC, i will Take a pic or 2 and Post

Getting Cleaning Jag stuck in my barrel...

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