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Thinking about my priming powder.

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Indeed, I can't imagine you getting a miss-fire with a coarser granulation of powder. Possibly slower...but the old adage holds true that every gun is an individual, so some may fire faster with ffffg, some not. I use ffffg because I have plenty of it, I wouldn't hesitate to use fff, ff or even fg if I wanted to, needed to, whatever. My Jeager has incredible lock time with ffffg, so I'm not sure why I would change that, or try anything different.

On 4fg being more prone to moisture, I found, a long time ago, that most (not accusing anyone) guys who had trouble with moisture in their pans, were the same guys who washed their locks in the dishwasher, or with soapy water, dried them off and then hosed them off with WD40, or something like that, wiped them off and SHAZAM they was done cleaning. What was really happening was that the oil was migrating up from the lock, in between the lock and barrel, and into the pan. So, if one has trouble with the prime "absorbing moisture from the air", one might want to try removing all oil from the lock, and greasing the moving parts instead. Or, de-oiling the lock, and then re-oiling very very very sparingly. ??? Just a suggestion.
 
About 30 years ago this subject of the pan powder was discussed at incredible length and the consensus was was if ffff was faster, the difference was too slight to be of importance.

As the difference between fff and ffff was gradual size and if you felt the smaller granolas made a difference Take a quarter cup of whatever you are charging your rifle with, put it in a small glass container and using the mortar and pestle method grind that powder with the blunt end of anything a grind it for a minute oe two and there you now;9 have a quarter cup of much smaller granules that will serve very well as pan powder.
I made a small leather container with a plunger spout that would leave a small amount of powder in the pan with each depression.
Later on I just used 2ff which seemed to work as well.

Dutch Schoultz

Indeed, I can't imagine you getting a miss-fire with a coarser granulation of powder. Possibly slower...but the old adage holds true that every gun is an individual, so some may fire faster with ffffg, some not. I use ffffg because I have plenty of it, I wouldn't hesitate to use fff, ff or even fg if I wanted to, needed to, whatever. My Jeager has incredible lock time with ffffg, so I'm not sure why I would change that, or try anything different.

On 4fg being more prone to moisture, I found, a long time ago, that most (not accusing anyone) guys who had trouble with moisture in their pans, were the same guys who washed their locks in the dishwasher, or with soapy water, dried them off and then hosed them off with WD40, or something like that, wiped them off and SHAZAM they was done cleaning. What was really happening was that the oil was migrating up from the lock, in between the lock and barrel, and into the pan. So, if one has trouble with the prime "absorbing moisture from the air", one might want to try removing all oil from the lock, and greasing the moving parts instead. Or, de-oiling the lock, and then re-oiling very very very sparingly. ??? Just a suggestion.
 
My computer will not let me type gradual. In my post about
pan powder it corrected my spelling to a new word granola , and a few other combinations that might get you thinking I was suggesting Cream of Wheat breakfast cereal as something to ignite your flint locks.

Hesus!



Dutch
About 30 years ago this subject of the pan powder was discussed at incredible length and the consensus was was if ffff was faster, the difference was too slight to be of importance.

As the difference between fff and ffff was gradual size and if you felt the smaller granolas made a difference Take a quarter cup of whatever you are charging your rifle with, put it in a small glass container and using the mortar and pestle method grind that powder with the blunt end of anything a grind it for a minute oe two and there you now;9 have a quarter cup of much smaller granules that will serve very well as pan powder.
I made a small leather container with a plunger spout that would leave a small amount of powder in the pan with each depression.
Later on I just used 2ff which seemed to work as well.

Dutch Schoultz
 
using the mortar and pestle method grind that powder with the blunt end of anything a grind it for a minute oe two and there you now;9 have a quarter cup of much smaller granules

Sorry, Dutch my friend, I have to disagree with you on this. Crushing the powder as you suggest only results in crushed powder, mostly dust. It does not give a smaller granulation. Granulation sizes come from the manufacturing process when the powder is 'corned'. I have tried the crushing thing and find it more nuisance than useful. The dust blows away, is hard to dispense and gives no benefit.
 
I've always used and prefer 4F for prime. There have been times when I had to prime with 3F and have no complaints concerning its performance.
 
Indeed, I can't imagine you getting a miss-fire with a coarser granulation of powder...

On 4fg being more prone to moisture, I found, a long time ago, that most (not accusing anyone) guys who had trouble with moisture in their pans, were the same guys who washed their locks in the dishwasher, or with soapy water, dried them off and then hosed them off with WD40, or something like that, wiped them off and SHAZAM they was done cleaning. What was really happening was that the oil was migrating up from the lock, in between the lock and barrel, and into the pan. So, if one has trouble with the prime "absorbing moisture from the air", one might want to try removing all oil from the lock, and greasing the moving parts instead. Or, de-oiling the lock, and then re-oiling very very very sparingly. ??? Just a suggestion.
I agree that over oiling can cause a problem but the experiment I did a few years ago intitled "Is it soup yet" taught me a few things about 4F powder in a pan becoming useless.

It turns out, 4F powder in a clean pan does not change into something that won't light when it is showered with sparks from a flintlock when the humidity is 100%. It will work just fine even if it is exposed to 100 percent humidity for hours on end.

The problem comes from putting 4F powder into a pan that has a layer of fouling on it, such as happens after the gun has fired.

If powder fouling is present, it will absorb a LOT of moisture from the air becoming actually wet and that moisture will be absorbed by the priming powder in the pan. If this happens then Yes, the 4F powder will fail to light.

I suspect this will also happen with 3Fg powder but I didn't test it.

The moral of the story is, if the flintlock has been fired, I think it is best to use a moist clean rag to wipe all traces of the pan fouling out, then dry it and then go ahead and reload and reprime the pan.

Oh, yes, Fletch has timed the ignition speed of various priming powder and he found 4F was faster than 3Fg or 2Fg. How much faster? As I recall it was something like three or four thousandths of a second.
A human can't tell the difference between .003 or .004 second in ignition speed. That's why it took special high speed equipment to determine what the speed of the 2Fg, 3Fg and 4F powder was.
 
I THINK YOU CRUSHED YOUR POWDER A LOT MORE THAN I DID.MY FLINTLOCK EXPERIENCE WAS RATHER SHORT SO I BOW TO YOUR LONGER EXPERIMENT/

I HAD A SMALL LEATHER FISH SHAPED CONTAINER WITH THAT VALVE SPOUT THAT KEPT THE PRIMING POWDER WHERE I PUT IT.
I GOT DISTRACTED BY TURNING MY ATTENTION TO WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL RIFLE BARRELS FLINT AND PERCUSSION AFTER THEY GO OFF.

SEND ME AN EMAIL AT [email protected].

If I haven't already I would kill to send you a current copy of my eBook

Dutch


O45
Sorry, Dutch my friend, I have to disagree with you on this. Crushing the powder as you suggest only results in crushed powder, mostly dust. It does not give a smaller granulation. Granulation sizes come from the manufacturing process when the powder is 'corned'. I have tried the crushing thing and find it more nuisance than useful. The dust blows away, is hard to dispense and gives no benefit.
 
I think you will find the fastest ignition with Swiss null. The Swiss 4F is about as fast, and probably better for hunting. I use Swiss 4F for Offhand and table shoots because it is consistent and fast. However, I often use 3F or 2F for hunting in my larger locks, as the difference in lock time may only cause a fraction of an inch difference, which won’t be a big deal for hunting, but could lose the match in target shooting.
 
Adding to Okawbow’s comment:
For serious target shooting, ignition speed is very important but what is equally important is ignition consistency. At the higher levels of competition in every shooting sport I have enjoyed over the years, at some point ignition consistency becomes that last factor to “ tweak” in our efforts to extract the ultimate performance from our equipment. Bench rest, BPCR, Chunk and Table shooting are disciplines where one hole groups are mandatory and to be competitive, that one-hole best not be too much over caliber or you wind up with the “ participation award”.
I believe one of the significant advantages derived from the use of finer priming powder is that it provides a more consistent ignition.
 
I THINK YOU CRUSHED YOUR POWDER A LOT MORE THAN I DID.MY FLINTLOCK EXPERIENCE WAS RATHER SHORT SO I BOW TO YOUR LONGER EXPERIMENT/

I HAD A SMALL LEATHER FISH SHAPED CONTAINER WITH THAT VALVE SPOUT THAT KEPT THE PRIMING POWDER WHERE I PUT IT.
I GOT DISTRACTED BY TURNING MY ATTENTION TO WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL RIFLE BARRELS FLINT AND PERCUSSION AFTER THEY GO OFF.

SEND ME AN EMAIL AT [email protected].

If I haven't already I would kill to send you a current copy of my eBook

Dutch


O45


Dutch
Thank you for the offer. I have a paper copy you sent me more than 20 years ago. I keep it, reference it and cherish it. BTW, my daughter still has the Roman coin you sent her and it means a lot to her. Be well my friend.
Frank
 
MY FAILING VISION REMOVED ME FROM THE RANGE, APPARENTLY, JUST BEFORE OR THHE SAME TIME AS SWISS AND SO MANY POWDERS APPEARED. SWISS SOUNDS WONDERFUL TO ME. ALL WE HAD WAS GOEX WHICH I USED EXCLUSIVELY AND PYRODEX WHICH A MAJOR JACTORY EXPLOSION BACK IN THOSE DAYS. THERE WAS ALSO A SOUTH AMERICAN POWDER THAT WAS FAMOUS FOR THE TONS OF RESIDEU AND SOME CHINESE POWDER THAT WAS SAID TO BE THE SAME STUFF FOUND IN FIRECRACRACKERS AND ROCKETS THAT LARGELY AVOIDED.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS.

DUTCH

I think you will find the fastest ignition with Swiss null. The Swiss 4F is about as fast, and probably better for hunting. I use Swiss 4F for Offhand and table shoots because it is consistent and fast. However, I often use 3F or 2F for hunting in my larger locks, as the difference in lock time may only cause a fraction of an inch difference, which won’t be a big deal for hunting, but could lose the match in target shooting.
 
THANK YOU FRANK. TELL YOUR DAUGHTER I GIVE ROMAN CCOINS TO LADIES BECAUSE THEY WON'T GO OUT AND SPEND IT RIGHT AWAY.

FRANK. THERE HAS BEEN MUCH ADDED TO MY EFFORTS. I CAN'T AFFORD TO PRINT IT OUT ANYMORE ON PAPER BUT I HAVE DIGITIZED WHAT YOU HAVE AND ADDED 55 OR SO EXTRA PAGES YOU CAN PRINT OUT AND WILL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THESE SLOPPY WINTER DAYS AND NIGHTS.
BUT I WILL NEED TO HAVE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS SO I CAN ZIP IT TO YOU.

MY ADDRESS IS
[email protected]

DUTCH

Dutch
Thank you for the offer. I have a paper copy you sent me more than 20 years ago. I keep it, reference it and cherish it. BTW, my daughter still has the Roman coin you sent her and it means a lot to her. Be well my friend.
Frank
 
Zonie hit it, I think.... I was told early on (like damn near 50 years ago) to wipe the pan after every shot. Not brush, wipe. I do this with anything and everything from my thumb to the end of a patch roll or even a patch. Have not had any problems even in the "air you can wear" humidity of Southernmost IL and its Mississippi and Ohio River environs.

Just me, I wipe my frizzen also with a damp thumb.... go figure.
 
As I've said before, I can tell the difference. 4F is, in both my flinters, noticeably faster in igniting. Not by much, but I could tell it was faster I'm sure 3F works ALMOST as well, in fact I tried it to have a comparison, and both me and my shooting buddy could tell a difference. I need all the help I can get with a faster ignition. Likely, (I'm not certain of this) our ancestors used whatever they had in their horns. I don't know any provenance of historical priming horns, nor what powder they carried. I've got a push-priming flask which doesn't leak. I've also got a pound of 4F that''s not going to sit in my safe for ever; to me it's proven and I intend to use it. I see no disadvantage to using 4F as a priming charge.
If you want fast ignition try some Null-B ( Swiss) or Meal-D ( Goex)! It is fine as talcum powder.
 
I was told early on (like damn near 50 years ago) to wipe the pan after every shot.

FWIW, my practice is to wipe the pan after every shot after I have swabbed the bore. I use the same patch but look for a clean corner. My swabbing patches are pure cotton baby blanket flannel bought at Walmart which I cut into aprox. 2" squares. I have done this wiping so many times it is second nature to me. I usually wipe the frizzen with my thumb also. In humid climates muddy gunk will form quickly in the pan after a shot. It happens so fast many believe it is the 4Fg primer attracting the moisture. Not so, it is the burned residue that is hygroscopic and just sucks in the moisture and makes mud.
 
I don’t use the same flannel patch that I just wiped my bore with. My routine, using a clean patch is frizzen-pan-rock.
That same patch is usually good for 2-3 uses before it needs to be replaced.
 

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