Bedding Your Rifle Barrel

Darkhorse said:

I have a .40 that I bedded most of the stock because the wood warped while I was building it, resulting in the stock moving away from the barrel. I won't have a rifle that I can squeeze the forend and feel the wood move then make contact with the barrel. It also got a little Accra glass gel on the surface where the barrel end meets the stock at the breech. This rifle shoots one hole groups at 50 yards with ease.
I also have a .54 that is only bedded where the barrel end meets the wood at the breech. This rifle also shoots one hole groups at 50 yards with ease.
With a octagonal barrel, even a swamped barrel like mine, I've never seen where bedding improves the accuracy of the rifle. I don't believe a muzzleloading barrel will be affected by barrel harmonics to a degree that it will affect the accuracy of the rifle. And considering a black powder charge and slow moving ball I'm not sure the conditions are even present to cause Harmonics at all.
I base this on many years of bedding CF stocks and finding the nodes for accuracy. Then comparing my notes with my ML rifle notes to look for evidence of barrel harmonics. If I had ever seen the slightest hint of barrel harmonics I would be incorporating this into my ML loads for optimum accuracy.
The only spot I think benefits from a thin coat of accra glass gel is the surface where the breech end of the barrel contacts the stock. I think a little bedding here will help
prevent cracks in the wood seen on so many rifles. I also file a draft on the end of the tang then file off about .010" from the end to where it doesn't make contact at all.

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I bed everything. Using industrial epoxy Not so much for accuracy, though it may help some, but for strength and stability. Barrel channels, inletted parts like lock, tang, plates, even patchbox and buttplate. On slim longrifles, with erratic grain in the wrist (curly maple), often reenforce that area by drilling a blind hole and epoxing a piece of fiberglass ramrod in it. I make everything with a hook breech so I can take the barrel out for cleaning. I’ve been a gun builder for many years and don’t believe anyone can inlet as well as bedding. One of my old codger gunsmithing instructors once said..if he ever got another hard on, he’d glass bed it. . Any good epoxy is fine, thickened with a strengthening additive. Not micro balloons or silica. Muleskinner

M. De Land said:

I use it on all guns for the simple reason that no living human or machine can cut a barrel channel or inlet a mortise as uniformly as it can be molded with glass bedding. Anyone who cares about quality strives to make the closest fit possible between wood and steel because uniformity of fit pressure translates to accumulation of accuracy potential as well as strength.
Seldom if ever is accuracy enhancement attributable to one specific action but rather the accumulation of known factors that lead in that direction. The more of those actions accomplished, in any arm, the greater the potential for accuracy improvement.
Glass bedding, in any muzzle loader, that has so much stock wood reinforcement removed where lock, tang, loading rod, barrel channel and tang mortises converge, can always benefit from good glass bedding technique.
Glass bedding not only reinforces this area it also makes the wood impervious to migrating oil from from the lock and water soaked fouling from weather or cleaning practice.

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I have had many antique muzzleloaders apart that have octagon barrels and round barrel channels. kind of blows your theories apart.

If you bed everything I imagine that makes the Mules nervous.
You have learned convert a gunstock into a club.
I'm not happy with the black plastic gin stocks. Everything is becoming plastic is I guess it was inevitable Even body parts.

brayhaven said:

I bed everything. Using industrial epoxy Not so much for accuracy, though it may help some, but for strength and stability. Barrel channels, inletted parts like lock, tang, plates, even patchbox and buttplate. On slim longrifles, with erratic grain in the wrist (curly maple), often reenforce that area by drilling a blind hole and epoxing a piece of fiberglass ramrod in it. I make everything with a hook breech so I can take the barrel out for cleaning. I’ve been a gun builder for many years and don’t believe anyone can inlet as well as bedding. One of my old codger gunsmithing instructors once said..if he ever got another hard on, he’d glass bed it. . Any good epoxy is fine, thickened with a strengthening additive. Not micro balloons or silica. Muleskinner

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brayhaven said:

I bed everything. Using industrial epoxy Not so much for accuracy, though it may help some, but for strength and stability. Barrel channels, inletted parts like lock, tang, plates, even patchbox and buttplate. On slim longrifles, with erratic grain in the wrist (curly maple), often reenforce that area by drilling a blind hole and epoxing a piece of fiberglass ramrod in it. I make everything with a hook breech so I can take the barrel out for cleaning. I’ve been a gun builder for many years and don’t believe anyone can inlet as well as bedding. One of my old codger gunsmithing instructors once said..if he ever got another hard on, he’d glass bed it. . Any good epoxy is fine, thickened with a strengthening additive. Not micro balloons or silica. Muleskinner

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I also bed absolutely everything after staining the wood. I use clear epoxy and it looks and works great. Careful bedding techniques will keep everything from sticking and seals the wood under all metal.

HH

I know that I’m gonna hear the never use J.B.Weld near a muzzleloader!, crowd wanna burn me at the stake!!, lol

It’s easy to work with and inexpensive. Only requires minimal steps. Seals from moisture, and corrects poor inletting jobs. Hard,strong and durable.

I use it on the tang area, lock mortise, trigger well of the stock, wedge plate area where inletting is cut to deep. About any area that you’d want to make flush a descent wood or metal fit.

For a releasing agent I use Saran Wrap or plastic kitchen wrap.

I apply the J.B. Weld to the area in the stock where is desired. Smooth out with a pop sickle stick.

Place a layer of saran wrap over area, gently press part in place in the stock. I let everything set up overnight, or at the least for several hours.

After everything has setup and cured, I gingerly lift parts or barrel out of stock. Lastly, the saran wrap easily peels right off the desired work area within the stock.

No mess, easy to work with, durable, and achieves lasting results.

I’ve done this to a number of muzzleloader’s to correct poor inletting, alternative to shimming, strengthening and sealing from moisture.

Respectfully, Cowboy

I did some glass bedding many years ago. I found that if you were out in the rain water collected inside your barrel channel and stayed there and rusted the heck out of the bottom of the barrel. I quit doing it after I noticed that. If you have proper inletting skills there is no reason to bed anything on a muzzleloader. If you're a real hacker and your parts wobble all over after inlet maybe there is a reason.

Comfortably_Numb said:

I did some glass bedding many years ago. I found that if you were out in the rain water collected inside your barrel channel and stayed there and rusted the heck out of the bottom of the barrel. I quit doing it after I noticed that. If you have proper inletting skills there is no reason to bed anything on a muzzleloader. If you're a real hacker and your parts wobble all over after inlet maybe there is a reason.

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I always RIG grease the underside of all barrels which prevents virtually all under barrel rust. Bedding makes the wood impervious to oil or grease.

Poboy said:

Good points. I built my CVA .45 cal. Kentucky , so I naturally finished and sealed the whole stock before assembling it. I actually haven't glass bedded anything on it, although I have some modern rifles. I was talkin' out my butt a bit, but....as I said, glass bedding makes more difference in modern sport barrelled rifles than muzzleloaders, anyway.

Glass bedding the lock area, while a good idea in theory, prolly totally unnecessary as well. To be honest, I wouldn't want to do it ANYWHERE on a traditional blackpowder gun. Daniel Boone didn't, and to me, the whole idea behind BP is to replicate what the original frontiersmen used.

Not to the point of suffering with ill- fitted gear in less than ideal conditions, ( although I have slept outside under the stars with nothing but a pillow..... but that's a whole different story).

Anyway, ....I spend more money on a kit than a fully functional, scoped BP rifle costs , because to me, those guns are just loopholes for people to shoot deer in BP seasons and totally out of line with the spirit of black powder hunting.

I'm nearly as anal about bow hunting. I'm not set up for it, but if I were to do it, it would be a good old-fashioned Fred Bear recurve, not a fancy smancy compound or crossbow. .... or.....heavens sake, the new bolt shooting air guns.

Rant over.

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hi there rant over. I can only tell you that age takes its toil and that a strong recurve becomes a personal enemy, so now I give thanks for the salvation of an adjustable bow this still allows an old Hunter to bow hunt but at a greatly reduced range. This is probably the last year for that too, so it's going to be up to the Flintlock to bring home the bacon. It hasn't been all bad, this will be my 52nd year to carry a bow.

Dr5x said:

If you bed everything I imagine that makes the Mules nervous.
You have learned convert a gunstock into a club.
I'm not happy with the black plastic gin stocks. Everything is becoming plastic is I guess it was inevitable Even body parts.

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Huh... ? Not sure what your point is here..?
Mules?? I would have bedded everything on a stock Even without epoxy. Back in the old days, would have used glue or pine rosin.
It allows a slim, graceful stock to be stronger and more stable..
club?? On the contrary. It seals and stabilizes the wood, reduces dimensional changes, & locks in the relationship between the steel parts that must interact consistently. Wood and steel have very different characteristics. Anything you can do to stabilize that relationship, makes a more durable, consistent and dependable gun.. just my opinion.
Based on over half a century of shooting & building ML guns. FWIW I don’t like plastic stocks either.

M. De Land said:

I always RIG grease the underside of all barrels which prevents virtually all under barrel rust. Bedding makes the wood impervious to oil or grease.

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Rig is excellent for that. It was second in effectiveness in my salt spray corrosion testing. And bedding doesn’t create an environment forcorrosion. If anything, inhibits it, by restricting the absorption of moisture into the wood.

brayhaven said:

I would have bedded everything on a stock Even without epoxy. Back in the old days, would have used glue or pine rosin.

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Back in the day, the glue was hide glue which is not water-resistant. Pine rosin might work, but it is brittle and would not stay where you put it for long, especially under the repeated impacts. Bedding isn't really necessary if one pays attention to the inletting at the breech - period guns have been found tightly inlet at breech & muzzle and hogged-out round in between. In a muzzleloader, the barrel supports the forestock, not the other way around....

BrownBear said:

I've bedded the tangs and rear 3-4" of barrels on a few guns that had been poorly inletted by previous owners. Nice "rescue" of guns that weren't performing well. Would I do it on guns as a matter of course? Kinda in the Why Bother category.

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I too have "defaulted" into glass bedding the breech and/or lock areas on several guns and a few ML rifles, as part of repairs.

Like Gus, being a few years later than he, in the USMC, plus working with fellows interested in 1000 yard matches, I was taught the bedding for wood stocks also prevented climate changes to the wood from making your free floated barrel come into contact with the stock, or prevented the action from shifting during recoil after minor shrinking of the wood in dry climates, or seasons, or wood compression from recoil, over time.

Changes in the wood over time from lubricants, or compression, or both, could happen to a ML, but..., since we are not discussing even rifles for 40 rod competitions a la those of Ned Roberts' era, I agree with Brown Bear..., why bother? With modern stocking materials, bedding also helps prevent the action portion of the rifle from movement within the stock from recoil..., but we aren't talking about that either, even though some folks using traditional side-lock ML's might have a synthetic stock on their piece.

LD

My musketoon had no bedding or epoxy, until the stock started to split at the tang bolt. Recoil does nasty things to wood, so relieving the breech area then using Accruglass put things in order.

On my Early Lancaster at the breech area the wood is rather slim, and my mentor insisted using accruglass to prevent the same thing from happening.
Used properly I can see where it would help...

if you don't think a muzzleloader with a big heavy barrel has vibration or harmonics; try shooting one off of a hard surface like a tree or board without padding...

After shooting Muzzleloaders for 42 years I've fired my rifles off of boards and along side of trees a great deal. And I've done a lot of work with CF's that have real barrel harmonics, so I know the difference. And I stand by my statement that a ML rifle with a octagonal barrel does not have enough harmonic vibration to affect the accuracy of the rifle.
I'll go so far to say this applies to B and C profile swamped barrels also. Now an A profile 50 caliber barrel, 42" long just might be affected by vibration. But since I've never worked with one, yet, I don't really know.

We don’t see most ML barrels “whip” during recoil like modern barrels because the pressures are much lower in ML barrels and their weight/mass is larger compared to the bore size. However, barrel harmonics still do affect the load of the ML barrel and of course with enough rounds fired, the wood behind the rear of the barrel and around the breech is going to get battered down/loosened up. It is not a matter of time/years one has the gun, but rather the number of rounds fired through it.

The bedding on many original rifles was tight around the breech and particularly the end of the barrel against the wood. It was also tight around the very front of the stock, no doubt so moisture and contaminants could not get inside and most likely to lock the front of the forearm to the barrel. Quite often the middle portion of the underside of the barrel was not filed into as neat of an octagonal bottom (and sometimes it was hardly filed much at all) and/or the wood was sort of hogged out. This demonstrates they believed a tight inlet along the entire length of the bottom of barrel was not necessary, though tight inletting along the sides helped keep out moisture and contaminants.

When glass/epoxy bedding a ML barrel, one must take particular attention on how the rear of the plug of the breech plug fits into the rear of the barrel. Quite often the rear of the plug is inside the surface of the rear of the barrel. That or there is a bit of an exposed barrel thread where epoxy could squoosh into and lock the barrel to the stock. Packing modeling clay into this area on each side of the tang and then trimming it off is often necessary to ensure the epoxy won’t get in there. One may normally trim it with a putty knife while holding the putty knife blade on the rear of the barrel as you “cut” into the clay to trim the excess off. The clay does need to be cleaned off the rear of the barrel face for the best/tightest fit. After the bedding process is complete, you just clean the remaining modeling clay out of the end of the barrel.

Most of the bedding jobs I’ve done on ML’s has been on UnCivil War guns, as some to many of them are not inletted that well. Also had to do some on TC stocks as sometimes their inletting was not so hot. The few times I’ve had to do it on original guns was because of the battering down of the wood behind the barrel and that was normally from recoil, but sometimes from where it had “gone soft” from Oil or Grease.

Gus

Black Hand said:

Back in the day, the glue was hide glue which is not water-resistant. Pine rosin might work, but it is brittle and would not stay where you put it for long, especially under the repeated impacts. Bedding isn't really necessary if one pays attention to the inletting at the breech - period guns have been found tightly inlet at breech & muzzle and hogged-out round in between. In a muzzleloader, the barrel supports the forestock, not the other way around....

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Glue or rosin wouldn’t be as good as epoxy, but are better than nothing. I’ve taken originals apart that were bedded with both, along with wax and tar. And the bedding is still intact. I have found some old guns with the metal still tight, and a bunch with the metal flopping around in the Inletting with gaps, cracks and splits around it.. I can inlet as well as most (light tight), and do, but still will always epoxy bed for strength and stability. And you’re right that the fore stock is supported by the barrel..While it’s in there.. but there’s nothing wrong with having it more stable, stronger, less warpage, less movement expansion, contraction, etc etc... and it’s nice to take it out for cleaning. As I said, I do hook breech on everything. If it’s done right (Inletting and bedding) you shouldn’t be able to see it, with the gun assembled. Muleskinner.

brayhaven said:

Glue or rosin wouldn’t be as good as epoxy, but are better than nothing. I’ve taken originals apart that were bedded with both, along with wax and tar. And the bedding is still intact. I have found some old guns with the metal still tight, and a bunch with the metal flopping around in the Inletting with gaps, cracks and splits around it.. I can inlet as well as most (light tight), and do, but still will always epoxy bed for strength and stability. And you’re right that the fore stock is supported by the barrel..While it’s in there.. but there’s nothing wrong with having it more stable, stronger, less warpage, less movement expansion, contraction, etc etc... and it’s nice to take it out for cleaning. As I said, I do hook breech on everything. If it’s done right (Inletting and bedding) you shouldn’t be able to see it, with the gun assembled. Muleskinner.

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My guns work fine with nothing....

Black Hand said:

My guns work fine with nothing....

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Isn't freedom a wonderful thing? Course freedom requires it's sole mate " responsibility" to survive because freedom is not actually free, it has a tremendous cost.
In gun building that cost can often be manifested in quality and longevity or not. It seems that progressively learning better means, methods and products that replace the old would be the practical and intelligent path to follow.

Stumpkiller said:

Would carefully hand fitted and permanently pinned in place be considered "bedded"?

I have aluminum pillars and glass bedding in my unmentionable 20th century deer/coyote/varmint hunting fire stick. But there is no need in a muzzleloader. The barrel weighs 20 times what the "action" does and the wood is superficial.

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True. Some suggest a very thin coating of AcruGlas as a waterproofing of barrel channel. Not truly glass bedding though. At the very least I wax the barrel and the stock.

M. De Land said:

It seems that progressively learning better means, methods and products that replace the old would be the practical and intelligent path to follow.

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This isn't why I and many others on this site and elsewhere do this - We do it to experience what they experienced and do what they did. The fact that guns from several hundred years ago still survive is a testament to the fact that their way worked and worked well. If you wish to "improve" on the old master feel free, but then be intellectually honest and call it a modern gun rather than a traditional gun, even though they may look similar...

Ultimately, if the builder did even a half-way decent job of inletting, there is no need to bed a barrel. A bit like a California beach-bunny - mostly plastic with a superficial resemblance to a human.