Bedding Your Rifle Barrel

Bedding Your Rifle Barrel
I very carefully bedded the barrels of both my Hawkens, The Kit built TC and the later exact Hawken copy. I had no particular reason for doing this but that ws back in the day when my ears perked up at every suggestions. I have become more skeptical as years passed. I noticed NO difference in my rifle's accuracy after the bedding. You have to be very careful in doing the bedding so the barrel doesn't become permanently glued into your stock.
I would like any other comments for or against bedding rifle barrels.
I think this might turn into the muzzle coning controversy.

Dutch Schoultz

Hahahahah, double double toil and trouble Dutch. I have bedded a couple but only the last eight inches of the breech area, the rest of the barrel, I like it to move independent of the wood. Coning(?), a useless exercise that has the potential to spoil the accuracy of an otherwise good barrel, and makes virtually no difference in the ease of loading.
There, things go south and its on you Dutch!
Robby

Robby...good to hear from you again.

I have several guns that I have bedded (really, more of a very thin coat than bedding, per se, but it is what it is.) Dutch, I can't shoot like you can, but I have not really noticed an accuracy difference either. I have done it more to add some strength, especially to the breech area and also provide a nice weather-resistant finish to the inlet. If one does a good job of filling any potential locking areas on the barrel/tang (bolt holes, etc.) with modeling clay and applies the release agent correctly, there is really no issue with the barrel being glued in. Although that first time they come out pretty hard from the extremely tight fit and one might think they have permanently glued their barrel in!

Some commercially made rifles/pistols literally have the barrel "hanging" at the breech from the tang with no wood under the breech/barrel for several inches! I have no idea why they do this other than something is faster and cheaper in their stock cutting process, and that's especially where I think some bedding is in order.

This 'ain't' center-fire 1000 yard competition!

I've bedded the tangs and rear 3-4" of barrels on a few guns that had been poorly inletted by previous owners. Nice "rescue" of guns that weren't performing well. Would I do it on guns as a matter of course? Kinda in the Why Bother category.

I am not clear on the bedding process.
I think that the Harmonics, The flexing of the barrel when its fired would be reduced by the bedding.
Now whether that flexing should be limited is yet another question. If you load the same shot after shot, the flexing with stay the same but if you vary anything, shot after shot the flexing will be different and the hit of the ba;;s will very as well. Another obvious need for consistency.

I have read time and again, "I have an almost pin point accuracy on target, but when I go hunting i'm going to increase the powder charge by ten or fifteen grains."

What might that increase do to the pin point accuracy when you really need it.?

Dutch

Spikebuck said:

Robby...good to hear from you again.

I have several guns that I have bedded (really, more of a very thin coat than bedding, per se, but it is what it is.) Dutch, I can't shoot like you can, but I have not really noticed an accuracy difference either. I have done it more to add some strength, especially to the breech area and also provide a nice weather-resistant finish to the inlet. If one does a good job of filling any potential locking areas on the barrel/tang (bolt holes, etc.) with modeling clay and applies the release agent correctly, there is really no issue with the barrel being glued in. Although that first time they come out pretty hard from the extremely tight fit and one might think they have permanently glued their barrel in!

Some commercially made rifles/pistols literally have the barrel "hanging" at the breech from the tang with no wood under the breech/barrel for several inches! I have no idea why they do this other than something is faster and cheaper in their stock cutting process, and that's especially where I think some bedding is in order.

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I bought a stock with a 1” channel cut. The barrel dropped right in. I had to square the breech fit the tang ect. However I worried the the barrel wasn’t tight enough, but could not cut any deeper. I did bed that barrel it was paper thin. But I was afraid to take much more down so I felt ok about it.

Dutch,

I spent much of my 26 year career in the Marines "glass bedding" NM and Sniper Rifles. I have also used various bedding compounds to a much, MUCH lesser extent in ML Rifles.

One HUGE misconception about glass bedding is that it will automatically make the rifle or gun more accurate, which at most is only PARTIALLY true and then only some of the time.

The accuracy in a ML rifle barrel comes from both the quality of the barrel and rifling, PLUS the work the shooter puts into it to find the very best load for the rifle. As you are well aware, even a GREAT barrel won't shoot well unless the shooter does his/her part to find the best load. Good/tight inletting then allows the barrel to shoot to its potential.

Glass bedding can't make a poor or bad barrel shoot better. It also can't make a great barrel shoot better. What glass bedding can and will do is make the barrel shoot more consistent groups, IF AND ONLY IF the bedding surface of the breech and/or the rest of the barrel is loose in the stock or if the wood is oil soaked or of poor quality.

You are definitely correct to be concerned that improper bedding techniques can "glue" the barrel to the stock and otherwise cause damage to the stock when removing the barrel. I use clay to fill in voids between the breech plug and the rear face of the barrel so the bedding can't flow in there and "glue lock" the barrel to the stock. You also need to ensure the sides of the tang are tapered inward slightly going from the top of the tang towards the bottom. (Some to many folks do this anyway when inletting the tangs, even if they aren't using glass bedding.) ALSO, you MUST use a GOOD/QUALITY Mold Release to ensure the bedding won't permanently stick to the barrel.

Personally for ML Rifles/Guns, I see glass bedding primarily as a way to fix loosely bedded stocks or as a way to repair the stocks when the wood gets crushed down from recoil. One could also use a very thin coat of bedding to ensure rain/sleet/snow/oil/etc. doesn't get into the barrel inlet and thus damage the wood.

Gus

My findings with muzzleloaders of the percussion kind is that if the lock plate is in contact with the nipple bolster or drum it won't shoot as good as it will without contact.
I have also used veneers and greased paper shims around the tang and breach areas to improve bedding.

Britsmoothy said:

My findings with muzzleloaders of the percussion kind is that if the lock plate is in contact with the nipple bolster or drum it won't shoot as good as it will without contact.

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First time I've heard that, and you've greatly roused my curiosity. I'll have to compare the fit on my best and worst performers.Thanks!

Britsmoothy said:

I have also used veneers and greased paper shims around the tang and breach areas to improve bedding.

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FWIW, the International Muzzleloading Association recognizes that in the historic period: pieces of wood or wood shims (like veneer) were glued into barrel channels with hide glue to "tighten up" the bedding when needed. So they allow this kind of repair even on the most prestigious "Original" Gun Matches. I think they also allow gluing in linen paper with hide glue as well. I've seen both kinds of "repairs" done on original guns.

Gus

Artificer said:

FWIW, the International Muzzleloading Association recognizes that in the historic period: pieces of wood or wood shims (like veneer) were glued into barrel channels with hide glue to "tighten up" the bedding when needed. So they allow this kind of repair even on the most prestigious "Original" Gun Matches. I think they also allow gluing in linen paper with hide glue as well. I've seen both kinds of "repairs" done on original guns.

Gus

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Have used canvass too.

Dr5x said:

Bedding Your Rifle Barrel
I very carefully bedded the barrels of both my Hawkens, The Kit built TC and the later exact Hawken copy. I had no particular reason for doing this but that ws back in the day when my ears perked up at every suggestions. I have become more skeptical as years passed. I noticed NO difference in my rifle's accuracy after the bedding. You have to be very careful in doing the bedding so the barrel doesn't become permanently glued into your stock.
I would like any other comments for or against bedding rifle barrels.
I think this might turn into the muzzle coning controversy.

Dutch Schoultz

Click to expand...

I use it on all guns for the simple reason that no living human or machine can cut a barrel channel or inlet a mortise as uniformly as it can be molded with glass bedding. Anyone who cares about quality strives to make the closest fit possible between wood and steel because uniformity of fit pressure translates to accumulation of accuracy potential as well as strength.
Seldom if ever is accuracy enhancement attributable to one specific action but rather the accumulation of known factors that lead in that direction. The more of those actions accomplished, in any arm, the greater the potential for accuracy improvement.
Glass bedding, in any muzzle loader, that has so much stock wood reinforcement removed where lock, tang, loading rod, barrel channel and tang mortises converge, can always benefit from good glass bedding technique.
Glass bedding not only reinforces this area it also makes the wood impervious to migrating oil from from the lock and water soaked fouling from weather or cleaning practice.

I have only done it on one rifle, 50 cal. , and coincidently my best shooter. Don't know how it would have shot without the bedding as it was done in the building process, and never fired un bedded.
That gun can shoot a moustache off a mouse at 75 yards. My other guns don't. Close, but not as accurate.
Too small a sample to draw conclusions, but I wouldn't frown on doing another build with bedding.

Would carefully hand fitted and permanently pinned in place be considered "bedded"?

I have aluminum pillars and glass bedding in my unmentionable 20th century deer/coyote/varmint hunting fire stick. But there is no need in a muzzleloader. The barrel weighs 20 times what the "action" does and the wood is superficial.

Ok....so, let me give a different perspective on bedding barrels.

( My personal perspective, unsubstantiated by actual fact and so subject to actual value .)

I am a carpenter by trade. There are 2 different views concerning rifle accuracy mods. One being free floating, the other glass bedding. The worst is neither .

Wood is an unstable critter. Sooo.... one day it leans to the left, the next to the right. Now, what does this mean? In a modern rifle, with a 1,000 yard shooter, a heck of a lot. With heavy muzzleloader barrel guns and realistic expectations,.....not a lot.

MAYBE, one of the benefits of glass bedding is....it stabilizes the WOOD a bit. I'm actually a fan of free floating, especially with muzzleloader barrels.


But! Glass bedded and free floating by a $100 bill clearance...but, then again, depending on the rifle ,and expectations, whether you hold a toothpick in your left cheek or right, may make more difference.

Poboy said:

Ok....so, let me give a different perspective on bedding barrels.

( My personal perspective, unsubstantiated by actual fact and so subject to actual value .)

I am a carpenter by trade. There are 2 different views concerning rifle accuracy mods. One being free floating, the other glass bedding. The worst is neither .

Wood is an unstable critter. Sooo.... one day it leans to the left, the next to the right. Now, what does this mean? In a modern rifle, with a 1,000 yard shooter, a heck of a lot. With heavy muzzleloader barrel guns and realistic expectations,.....not a lot.

MAYBE, one of the benefits of glass bedding is....it stabilizes the WOOD a bit. I'm actually a fan of free floating, especially with muzzleloader barrels.


But! Glass bedded and free floating by a $100 bill clearance...but, then again, depending on the rifle ,and expectations, whether you hold a toothpick in your left cheek or right, may make more difference.

Click to expand...

Personally I like to just glass bed the lock/tang area for reinforcement, where so much wood in removed and oil migration is often an issue. The upper barrel channel needs good fitting than water proofing with something like spray on spar varathane that penetrates the wood and is water proof not just repellent. Good, knot free , properly dried and sealed, grain aligned walnut or maple, is pretty stable, in my opinion.

M. De Land said:

Personally I like to just glass bed the lock/tang area for reinforcement, where so much wood in removed and oil migration is often an issue. The upper barrel channel needs good fitting than water proofing with something like spray on spar varathane that penetrates the wood and is water proof not just repellent. Good, knot free , properly dried and sealed, grain aligned walnut or maple, is pretty stable, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Good points. I built my CVA .45 cal. Kentucky , so I naturally finished and sealed the whole stock before assembling it. I actually haven't glass bedded anything on it, although I have some modern rifles. I was talkin' out my butt a bit, but....as I said, glass bedding makes more difference in modern sport barrelled rifles than muzzleloaders, anyway.

Glass bedding the lock area, while a good idea in theory, prolly totally unnecessary as well. To be honest, I wouldn't want to do it ANYWHERE on a traditional blackpowder gun. Daniel Boone didn't, and to me, the whole idea behind BP is to replicate what the original frontiersmen used.

Not to the point of suffering with ill- fitted gear in less than ideal conditions, ( although I have slept outside under the stars with nothing but a pillow..... but that's a whole different story).

Anyway, ....I spend more money on a kit than a fully functional, scoped BP rifle costs , because to me, those guns are just loopholes for people to shoot deer in BP seasons and totally out of line with the spirit of black powder hunting.

I'm nearly as anal about bow hunting. I'm not set up for it, but if I were to do it, it would be a good old-fashioned Fred Bear recurve, not a fancy smancy compound or crossbow. .... or.....heavens sake, the new bolt shooting air guns.

Rant over.

I have a .40 that I bedded most of the stock because the wood warped while I was building it, resulting in the stock moving away from the barrel. I won't have a rifle that I can squeeze the forend and feel the wood move then make contact with the barrel. It also got a little Accra glass gel on the surface where the barrel end meets the stock at the breech. This rifle shoots one hole groups at 50 yards with ease.
I also have a .54 that is only bedded where the barrel end meets the wood at the breech. This rifle also shoots one hole groups at 50 yards with ease.
With a octagonal barrel, even a swamped barrel like mine, I've never seen where bedding improves the accuracy of the rifle. I don't believe a muzzleloading barrel will be affected by barrel harmonics to a degree that it will affect the accuracy of the rifle. And considering a black powder charge and slow moving ball I'm not sure the conditions are even present to cause Harmonics at all.
I base this on many years of bedding CF stocks and finding the nodes for accuracy. Then comparing my notes with my ML rifle notes to look for evidence of barrel harmonics. If I had ever seen the slightest hint of barrel harmonics I would be incorporating this into my ML loads for optimum accuracy.
The only spot I think benefits from a thin coat of accra glass gel is the surface where the breech end of the barrel contacts the stock. I think a little bedding here will help
prevent cracks in the wood seen on so many rifles. I also file a draft on the end of the tang then file off about .010" from the end to where it doesn't make contact at all.

I am pretty sure the Crossbow was around long before the muzzleloader.

Dutch

Poboy said:

Good points. I built my CVA .45 cal. Kentucky , so I naturally finished and sealed the whole stock before assembling it. I actually haven't glass bedded anything on it, although I have some modern rifles. I was talkin' out my butt a bit, but....as I said, glass bedding makes more difference in modern sport barrelled rifles than muzzleloaders, anyway.

Glass bedding the lock area, while a good idea in theory, prolly totally unnecessary as well. To be honest, I wouldn't want to do it ANYWHERE on a traditional blackpowder gun. Daniel Boone didn't, and to me, the whole idea behind BP is to replicate what the original frontiersmen used.

Not to the point of suffering with ill- fitted gear in less than ideal conditions, ( although I have slept outside under the stars with nothing but a pillow..... but that's a whole different story).

Anyway, ....I spend more money on a kit than a fully functional, scoped BP rifle costs , because to me, those guns are just loopholes for people to shoot deer in BP seasons and totally out of line with the spirit of black powder hunting.

I'm nearly as anal about bow hunting. I'm not set up for it, but if I were to do it, it would be a good old-fashioned Fred Bear recurve, not a fancy smancy compound or crossbow. .... or.....heavens sake, the new bolt shooting air guns.

Rant over.

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