Leather recommendation

Cruzatte said:

What about oil tanned leather? Just a random thought.

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BrownBear said:

If you can't soften your existing bags to your satisfaction and come around to making new ones, oil tanned leather is great stuff. This is my pick of the litter. Easy to work, thickness is good, and the stiffness is "just right" from the git go. Living in serious rain country I use it for lots of stuff from shooting bags to fishing bags to camera bags.

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Oil Tan! That's the stuff ya want. Easy to work with and everything BB said.
Here's my source, a local Gent, and I know BB has gotten the same product from him too.
https://theleatherguy.org/product-category/leather-hides/cowhide-leather/oil-tanned/
The piece you look at with photo's and tape measure IS the piece you get.

The only thing you can do to get Veg Tan that heavy to relax is to roll it,, meaning you have to flex and pull and run that leather across a smooth board or small round branch/round, back-n-forth, to break the grain and keep doing it until it's soft.
Veg tan is made for hard stuff, harness, knife sheath, holsters, belts,, unless you get it light like 2-3oz,, even then veg tan is made to hold shape. You can wet it, steam it, form it to hold shape.

as already mentioned go easy on the conditioners veg tan is stiff and will stay on the stiff side even with use. mink oil does soften it a bit on thinner leathers anyway. like black-hand says use garment-weight leather, chrome tanned leather is soft as well or go with lighter weight leather, kangaroo leather is another option it is thin, super strong and comes in veg or chrome tan. i have a bag on the go that i'm making out of 2-3 weight veg tan it should supple enough. tandy usually isn't the best place to buy leather but it's cheap, tandy can't hold a candle to the more expensive better quality leathers.

TXFlynHog said:

Yes, I had wondered about this myself too. The veg tanned leather that you buy for these projects (Tandy Leather is my source) is pretty darn tough. I wondered whether I should have "beat the manure out of it" prior to working with it, but I was following instructions in a book that suggested that veg tanned leather is supposed to be pretty tough. When hand sewing, I continually wet pieces that I was sewing so that it made those areas easier to work with, but more importantly when they dried the stitches became tighter/better. I was just not prepared for such a stiff final product.

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Wetting and drying will make the leather stiffer each time it is done. Apply your choice of "conditioner" to the flesh side prior to assembly and work the pieces to soften them up. Veg tanned leather will dry and stiffen some in storage over time and often this leather has been in the store a while. Try to find some Bison hide I think you will be happy with the way it sews and turns out.

morb said:

...tandy can't hold a candle to the more expensive better quality leathers.

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In my book, thankfully not. I have some very fine (and very expensive!) top grade European hides and I'm proud to use them for the right project. But for me that's not shooting bags and other leather products for muzzleloading. Just a matter of taste, but that's mine. I buy the cheapest stuff possible from Tandy (Craftsman Oak, and only when on sale) specifically because of this they say about it:

These sides have brands, holes, insect bites and other marks.

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They can be incredibly "rustic." Just the way I like them.

Just reminded myself of one ill-fated adventure in "brands, holes, insect bites and other marks." I wanted to make a special piece for my brother incorporating the scar from my dad's registered brand from when he was a young man. The brand is long since retired, but I still have the irons.

Since we didn't have a herd on our place in the Rockies at the time, I asked a neighbor if I could buy a calf and brand it my way, then retrieve the hide at slaughter and have it tanned for the project. He sent me to talk to the brand inspector, who scratched his head and called his boss, who called his boss. I could do it if I could assure that in its life the calf never crossed state lines and didn't get shipped out onto one of the forest service or blm grazing leases along with the rest of the herd. I had visions of my friend having to sort the bloomin thing from his herd every time he did something, the hassle of recovering the hide from the slaughter house and the expense and horsing around to get it tanned.

Decided my brother would be just fine if I heated the irons and put a black scorch on new leather rather than moving heaven and earth to get an old healed brand into the leather.

wzroberts said:

Rob,

I'm not a leatherworker, and I only have an average level of experience with leather conditioning products. But I have tanned a few different hides in my time, and that experience led a thought to come to mind:
At the end of the tanning process, leather has to be "worked" (stretched, even abraded) extensively to break in the fibers and make it supple and usable. You will see videos of tanners pulling their leather across axe heads, fence posts, etc. in this process. I am wondering if your leather didn't need to be worked a little more. Or maybe commercially veg-tanned cow leather is a different beast all together. At any rate- sounds like a neat project. I hope you get some good use from it!

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WZ, you hit the nail on the head.

After dying and oiling, I work/bend leather bag straps and belts back and forth many times to break down the fibers a bit and really soften them up. I "self discovered" this old tip/trick many years ago when I was using 8-9 oz White Latigo Leather for Cartridge Box Straps plus Bayonet and Sword Slings. I normally do this also on heavier pouch leather (like you used) before I sew up the pouches, BUT that doesn't mean you can't do it after you have sewn the leather in to pouches/bags. You just have to fold/bend the leather together flat and do it the opposite way as well - all over as much of the pouch leather as you can, when the pouch/bag is already sewn up.

Gus

Thanks for these tips guys. The book that I was following for this project led me to sew the bag first, then stain it... no mention of working the leather first. I'll see if I can soften this bag a bit post-build using some mink oil and "TV-watching-time-bending" because the front flap is from an axis buck that I shot (my first deer) and I really don't want to loose that to a new build. Sure... I could remove it and replace it on another bag, but if I can soften this one up, that's preferred.

Returning here again to say thanks! I picked up some Neatsfoot Oil at my local Tractor Supply (cheaper than online) and worked some into the bag. I won’t say that the bag is now soft and supple, but it’s a definite improvement, making the bag usable.

I will add... the pattern that I used to make this bag was copied and enlarged using my home copier’s “enlarge” setting. I got it as big as would fit on a piece of printer paper, and it’s still a bit too small for my liking. Think a new bag is definately on then horizon! Possibly three of them-identical, so I can give one to each of my two brothers.

longcruise said:

Indeed! Here is one I made from rather light veg tan around 2 oz. It has a gusset but I didn't welt the seams and now wish I had!

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Nice looking bag! Is the intent to install buckles on the long flaps on each side to attach to the shoulder strap?

Yes, I attached a long strap to the right side and used a Conway buckle to attach to the leader on the left side. I don't have a picture of that step.

One bit of unsolicited advise about attaching straps to thin leather:

If there's ever going to be any weight in the bag, place a tab of leather on the inside, then sew through it, the bag and the strap at either end. Thin leathers tear real easy, but the extra padding from the tab mostly prevents that. Made a lightweight (2 oz) briefcase once upon a time before I learned the trick. I was mostly running between gates at Ohare when I learned the lesson. I'd shoved something heavier than usual into it. When the strap seam pulled out of the bag, it sent that briefcase sliding and skidding about 30' down the concourse.

ZUG said:

I have some old rifle slings that I made 25 or 30 years ago out of 10 oz veg tan leather that are now too stiff for my liking. I called Springfield Leather and asked them what to use to soften the leather up and they told me to use Saddle Soap -

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F.Y.I. Update: I used the Saddle Soap treatment as recommended by Springfield Leather and it did OK while it was wet but after it dried the leather was not any more flexible then when I started. I then did the Neatsfoot Oil treatment and that did the trick.

Yep, Saddle Soap is a cleaner not a conditioner. You need some kind of oil to soften/condition the leather. I like the trick of wetting the rough surface a bit before oiling, as that helps to not get too much oil in the leather. If you don't get enough oil where that piece of leather likes it after that coat dries, then wet and oil again.

Gus

Best leather conditioner I’ve ever found is “saddle butter” sold by Ray Holes saddle company in Grangeville, ID. Great stuff. I’ve used it for decades on saddles, holsters, shooting bags, sheaths etc. Snow Seal by atsko is another good one. Neatsfoot by itself always seems to leave it wet and too floppy for me.

I'm not sure why everybody wants thin, floppy shooting bags...

I think 4oz vegetable tanned leather is just right for a shooting bag. 5 oz starts getting a bit thick, and 3 oz is getting a bit thin, but not too bad. If you look in the picture books, most of the old shooting bags are considered to be made of calfskin (with the obvious exceptions to those made of deer skin or bear or whatever). Those few old ones I have been able to see seem to be about 3 oz or so thick.

If your leather is too stiff, it can be staked to soften it. Run it back and forth vigorously on a smooth wood stake. Work it in your hands, etc. This separates the fibers some and makes it more flexible. This is done by machine now in the tanneries, when more flexible leather is desired.

Applying neatsfoot oil will also soften the leather to a great degree. Some oil is necessary to keep the fibers lubricated and to prevent cracking.

The stiffness in vegetable tanned leather is why I only use chrome tanned hides for my bags. It's also a lot easier to sew.

Darren

necchi said:

Oil Tan! That's the stuff ya want. Easy to work with and everything BB said.
Here's my source, a local Gent, and I know BB has gotten the same product from him too.
https://theleatherguy.org/product-category/leather-hides/cowhide-leather/oil-tanned/
The piece you look at with photo's and tape measure IS the piece you get.

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Thank you for pointing out that leather from “the leather guy” is shown as the actual piece of leather the buyer will get. I VERY much like the fact that he also puts rulers on the pieces of leather to show you especially the length of the piece. This is extremely important if you want to make the strap to hang the pouch from a single piece of leather. If the piece of leather is not long enough, you won’t be able to make a one piece strap from that piece of leather. It is also important to give one a good idea of how the entire piece of hide can be used.

Like Brown Bear, I’m not too concerned about dark spots and some scars on the leather for a lot of ML Leather goods, but this is great one can see where such scars will be and either choose or plan accordingly before you order. I really think the Leather Guy hit on a great idea for most folks who will never be able to walk into the shop and look at the leather at hand. Also, for those who don’t have a Tandy or other leather store in close enough proximity, this is as close as one can come to being able to walk in and pick from the available hides/pieces of leather.

Gus

Thank you, Those guy's are great with their web site marketing and management. I met them when they were just starting and hitting the local vous`. (I loved his scrap bin!)
I highly recommend subscribing to their e-mails, they are not obnoxious, only about once a week to announce sales. They are savvy buyers and understand volume sales.
2yrs(?) ago they found a bargain on pallets of oil-tan sides all a dark tan color,, a bulk listing of 10sqrft or better @ $30 each, I bought 10, only have 3 left.

I've only found one complaint with TLG-
Often his dyed leather is only surface dyed, so when you cut out a piece you get a white to tan margin all around. Not a problem if you don't use dyed leather or if you have your own dye to hit the edges. Frustrating as heck when you need dyed and don't have compatible supplies of your own. Also an issue if you get a great big scrape in something once it's built and in heavy use.

Small nit for me, but it makes me hesitate to buy anything dyed from him.

I picked up a 6-8 oz moose side off Fleabay and absolutely love it.
The bullet hole sealed it for me. How kool, the bag tells the story of it's origin.
I have made a shooting bag and a knife sheath and am working on a long rifle sheath.
I am sewing everything using 1/8" deer hide lace.
I am still learning, and enjoying every minute of it.
(I am becoming addicted to the aroma of fresh tanned leathers)