Why are or aren't you an NMLRA member?

Black Hand said:

Unfortunately, many of the guns offered by the larger commercial manufacturers touted as traditional are as similar to the HC versions as Vegan ice-cream resembles the real stuff containing sugar, cream, eggs, vanilla and a little salt - the resemblance is superficial at best. Yes, they load from the muzzle, but that is about it...

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But, compared to a modern inline muzzleloader.....They are Steak Tartare.

Lets get off of the subject of the unmentionables and get back to talking about the NMLRA folks.

I don't want to have to lock this thread but I will if we continue to talk about modern muzzleloaders.

The magazine is worth the price of membership even if you do nothing else with it.

Jimbo47 said:

Traditional muzzle loader reproductions are as close to the original as one can expect to get when it comes to HC.

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This is what I was responding to - they are not as close to the originals as one can expect to get when it comes to HC. They are great starter guns that superficially resemble HC/PC guns in that they load from the muzzle with black powder. One can purchase muzzleloaders that are far more PC/HC, but one must venture away from the Thompson Centers, CVAs, Pedersolis and Lymans of the world...

....and save several thousand more dollars. If I could I would, since I cant I havent. But If things change I will get an original in excellent shape or a very nice used custom. Till then THANK GOD for the repro's

Obviously, you only own and shoot original guns that were made prior to 1865.

It must be nice to be in that position.

Unfortunately, most, of our members, including myself, don't own shootable, original guns made in the 1700's and early 1800's, and they never will.

For them I say, enjoy and shoot your modern reproductions.
They load the same, shoot the same and can do everything the originals can do without resorting to modern 20th and 21st century technology.

Your using these modern reproductions also minimizes putting wear and tear on the few remaining original antiques that exist.

As for the factory made reproduction guns, many of them are not as far from being good recreations of actual guns that existed during the Flintlock and Percussion era's as some people would like you to think they are.

Zonie, well said.

Everyone that shoots BP rifles and shotguns are on THEIR own personal journey.

Each of us has their own interest, desires and limitations.

I love a good piece of wood, engraved metal, and accurate rifle.

I started with a Lyman Deerstalker and my second a Lyman GPR. These both have served me very well. I also own a few unmentionable rifles along with more modern rifles and shotguns.

Saturday I am going for the first time for me to the Jefferson Iowa BP shoot. They allow black powder cartridge shotguns, and bp cartridge rifles and even unmentionables shoot at their matches. Now I have to decide if I want to take my Greener 12 ga BP cartridge or my Greener ML shotgun along with a flinter rifle.

There is no organization that I am a part of that I agree with 100%, heck I dont agree with my wife of 25 years on everything.

The NMLRA is a great organization. It suits me very well. If there is something that I dont like about it, well, I can get involved and help change things. But most people find it easier to complain than to act.

fleener

Zonie said:

Obviously, you only own and shoot original guns that were made prior to 1865.

It must be nice to be in that position.

Unfortunately, most, of our members, including myself, don't own shootable, original guns made in the 1700's and early 1800's, and they never will.

For them I say, enjoy and shoot your modern reproductions.
They load the same, shoot the same and can do everything the originals can do without resorting to modern 20th and 21st century technology.

Your using these modern reproductions also minimizes putting wear and tear on the few remaining original antiques that exist.

As for the factory made reproduction guns, many of them are not as far from being good recreations of actual guns that existed during the Flintlock and Percussion era's as some people would like you to think they are.

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Please show where I have said that one MUST own and shoot a pre-1865 gun to be HC...?

As I said above:
"...they are not as close to the originals as one can expect to get when it comes to HC. They are great starter guns that superficially resemble HC/PC guns in that they load from the muzzle with black powder. One can purchase muzzleloaders that are far more PC/HC, but one must venture away from the Thompson Centers, CVAs, Pedersolis and Lymans of the world..."

There are many good (even great) reproductions on the market - i.e. firearms that actually replicate existing guns or schools, having made the effort to reproduce parts and designs from originals. Yes, they are more expensive at times, but even so, can be found or funds saved until one can be purchased.

There are other guns that aren't reproductions in more than the sense that they have a lock, stock, barrel and load from the muzzle. They are the impressionistic creations of the commercial muzzleloader world. It's as if someone tried to make parts & assemble a gun from a B&W of a picture someone photocopied from a book that was then faxed to someone who faxed it to someone else and this process was repeated a few more times.

I find it interesting that some who defend these commercial guns making the claim they can't afford an actual reproduction mention they have 3-4 (or more) of these commercial versions but complain the others are too expensive. At $400-600 a piece, one could have easily purchased an actual HC reproduction.

As I've also stated, these commercial guns are a great way to start (I have one myself), but there are far more faithful (HC/PC) reproductions available. So please don't put words in my mouth that I haven't said - I was very clear...

Dear Sir,
Who died and left you in charge of what is and isn't HC and PC? More importantly who are you to say how people spend their money on their sport?
I have read a lot of your posting and I can't figure out if you really shoot any muzzle loader. Do you or are you an internet expert. What is your experience?
I looked at your bio and you sure are stingy with your info, what is up with that. A man of your experience and knowledge should be proud of his accomplishments.
If you don't want to belong to The NMLRA it is ok, that I was the point of this topic, everything else has been chest beating.
Your are now the second person I will not follow, because of your attitude.

Just saying,

Michael

fleener said:

Now I have to decide if I want to take my Greener 12 ga BP cartridge or my Greener ML shotgun along with a flinter rifle.

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What kind of Greener ML is that?

Spence

meanmike said:

Who died and left you in charge of what is and isn't HC and PC?

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I read and share the observations I've made. If you don't like what I have to say, you are under no obligation to do anything.

meanmike said:

More importantly who are you to say how people spend their money on their sport?

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I don't care how you spend your money.

meanmike said:

I have read a lot of your posting and I can't figure out if you really shoot any muzzle loader. Do you or are you an internet expert. What is your experience?

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Yes, I do shoot muzzleloaders and have for nearly 20 years. I've spent the last 35 years studying and recreating the material culture of the period.

meanmike said:

I looked at your bio and you sure are stingy with your info, what is up with that. A man of your experience and knowledge should be proud of his accomplishments.

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So what? I'm under no obligation to share anything about myself in my bio.

meanmike said:

Your are now the second person I will not follow, because of your attitude.

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I care even less whether you follow me or not.

Here is the W. Greener 12 ga ML. The hammers were not original when I got it and were not appropriate.

I was able to find castings from an original Greener and have fitted them. The pictures dont show the new hammers.

Fleener








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Hand,what criteria in your mind establishes a firearm as HC/PC?

I really like that figured wood!

Thanks. I have one very similar in 10 gauge.

Spence

I got to chime in with a reality check Black Hand....

Thompson Center stopped making traditional muzzleloaders 11 years ago.....CVA about 25 years ago.....Most of the guns T/C made could be bought for $250.00 or less and most CVA's were under $100.00

Neither company makes traditional styled muzzleloaders today....Traditions will probably be next, followed by Lyman/Investarms.

:v

Yes - I am aware. However, they are still available for purchase from others as are the ones (Investarms, etc) being marketed by Cabelas, Sportsman's Warehouse and other retailers. The brands were used as examples that would be recognized by most people.

Spence

if you have a Greener in 10 ga. and ever want to sell it keep me in mind.

Thanks

Fleener

I've been a member since 1980 or so. I let it lapse once, but missed Muzzle Blasts so I rejoined.

I was a member in the NMLRA for 30 years, then gave up my membership due to inline an modern sabot bullets being included into the magazine makeup. I have no problem with modern inline rifles, just start your own magazine an let the NMLRA go back to how it all started. I bet the originators of the magazine at its start, are flipping in there grave seeing how the thinking format for this magazine has changed to include inlines , scopes, sabots. Is it the extra money the club makes getting them on board.....hummmmm, follow the money!