Unusal Early Flintlock Rifle

Enclosed are images of an early not often seen flintlock rifle ,it not only loads from the muzzle but is also a breech loader, not a Fergusons but a similar method .
Feltwad

That is a stout, no-nonsense jaw screw...

Hi Feltwad,
Thanks for sharing the photos. I saw an English rifle with a similar breech loading screw mechanism that dated from the late 17th century. It had a dog lock and was very nicely made for the time and place.

dave

I suspect that cock assembly is a replacement, as it looks awkwardly-shaped and out of place on what is otherwise a very nicely-made gun.

There was a brace ( two) of pistols like that on the pawn shop tv show a few days ago. I had never seen that kind of set-up. Interesting but obviously not successful in the evolution of firearms development.

Elnathan said:

I suspect that cock assembly is a replacement, as it looks awkwardly-shaped and out of place on what is otherwise a very nicely-made gun.

Click to expand...

It is original
Feltwad

What I'm wondering is when this piece was built in relation to Maj. Ferguson's famous rifle.

Cruzatte said:

What I'm wondering is when this piece was built in relation to Maj. Ferguson's famous rifle.

Click to expand...

I would guess that it pre-dates the Ferguson rifle (1770) by a good 10-20 years or so and surmise it may be a ‘one of’. The Ferguson rifle isn’t an original design less the idea to use the trigger guard to open the action, which admittedly is pretty ingenious of itself. It actually built upon the action design of the breechloader flintlock designs of Isaac de la Chaumetter circa 1720.

There are many early firearm examples of “one ofs”, including this 6-shot REVOLVING matchlock rifle made for the King of France in 1520 no less ... simply amazeballs ... so much for Samuel Colt designing the revolver, huh?

Flint62Smoothie said:

The Ferguson rifle isn’t an original design less the idea to use the trigger guard to open the action, which admittedly is pretty ingenious of itself. It actually built upon the action design of the breechloader flintlock designs of Isaac de la Chaumetter circa 1720.

Click to expand...

Maybe even earlier.

From an early Portuguese book, Espingarda Perfeyta, The Perfect Gun, Cesar Fiosconi & Jordam Guserio, published 1718, detailing a listing of the things the “old masters” had done in the past to make a gun shoot better:

Chapter XLII pg. 340 “Others introduced the bullet under the trigger guard, which closes the entrance with a screw, or thread, advising that the fire so expelled would go out by a hole even narrower than half the bore of the barrel, in which part it would not fit, and since the fire being compressed was prevented from leaving, it would multiply its forces, increasing such fury against the bullet that it would double its range.”

Spence

Great stuff Guys and fantastic old guns, defiantly not something we see everyday .

Felt, is that a removable peep sight on the rear?

Cruzatte said:

What I'm wondering is when this piece was built in relation to Maj. Ferguson's famous rifle.

Click to expand...

Hi,
No,
These kinds of guns predate Ferguson's rifle by almost a century as I mentioned above. They sometimes are known as deer park rifles because they were used to hunt deer on the big estates in Britain. Different than the Ferguson, the powder then ball are inserted behind the plug rather than in front. Keith Neal and David Back show a similar breech loading rifle with the screw plug on the bottom by Tarles dated to 1670 and another rifle with the plug on top by Lambe from 1730. They were an advantage when shooting from concealment or lying down. Based on the decoration and hardware on the gun shown by Feltwad, I believe it is from the 1770s or so. Ferguson copied a through the breech screw plug design first used in the 1720s and 1730s by Penterman, Cookson, and La Chaumette. It is actually difficult to identify anything unique that Ferguson patented.

dave

smo said:

Great stuff Guys and fantastic old guns, defiantly not something we see everyday .

Felt, is that a removable peep sight on the rear?

Click to expand...

The sight which is part of the plug I would say is a peep sight ,going through my records there were several English gun makers that used this principle the last one I noted was Morris of Birminghan and this was dated 1810
Feltwad

Here is a similar old topic.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/breech-loading-flintlock.39805/

Felt, is the blade part with the hole in it removable / slotted into the base?

It appears to be...

smo said:

Felt, is the blade part with the hole in it removable / slotted into the base?

It appears to be...

Click to expand...

I would say that the peep sight is removable which is T shape and of brass see images
Feltwad

Peep Sight

Thanks Felt

Cruzatte said:

What I'm wondering is when this piece was built in relation to Maj. Ferguson's famous rifle.

Click to expand...

The flat lock plate is a little later feature on English flintlocks, I'd say 1765 or even a little later.