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Flint and frizzen question

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Artie Peltier

40 Cal.
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question for the group. Looking at an older TC hawken rifle in 50 cal. The rifle, bore and wood are all like new. Double set triggers and brass hardware. Has an existing flint in the jaws secured with leather. Has to be adjusted to strike the frizzen. My question is at half cock should the flint make contact with the frizzen? Mine doesn’t. Lock appears to be working well and at full cock when trigger is pulled cock falls with no hang up but short of frizzen. Think I need a larger flint or at least re-adjust at half cock? Any and all info appreciated. Tenderfoot with flinters experienced with cap locks. thanks Art
 
Art,
Welcome to the insanity corner of the world of traditional muzzleloaders. My flintlocks work best when the edge of the flint is about 1/16th of an inch or so off the face of the frizzen when the lock is at half-cock. When installing a new flint, after getting the distance relationship established I only "snug it down" in the jaws of the cock. Once "snug"...not tight...I let the cock go forward slowly, while controlling it with my hand. Doing so allows the edge to get squared up against the face of the frizzen. After it's squared up, then tighten it down.
There's a LOT of good information here about how to get the best results from your flintlock...discussions about establishing the best angle-of-attack of the flint to the frizzen, bevel up or bevel down, leather vs lead to wrap the flint, choices of flint types, etc, etc.
As "Bear Claw" Chris Lapp famously said to Jeremiah Johnson: "Pilgrim you got some learnin' to do".
Enjoy the journey let us know if we can help..!!!
 
Great info Don,

Art, Welcome too the Dark Side! Flintlocks Rock!

Your experience with cap locks will be a great help in the learning curve,
I've only been shooting Flinters since 2008, and I'm still wet behind the ears...

My best advice, for what its worth... is too handle the gun a lot.
Use a "wooden flint" to practice follow thru, Dry fire the weapon while holding the sights on a spot on the wall.
It's crucial too shooting a Flintlocks.
Enjoy the Ride!
 
If not even striking the frizzen and in the excellent shape described I'd bet this was a wall hanger and the owner had no clue, just stuck in a flint for looks? Has it ever been fired?
 
are you sure that the cock is falling from full cock to all of the way down or is it stopping at half cock.
maybe the previous owner cleaned it and lost the tiny fly detent and the cock is catching on the halfcock notch.
 
are you sure that the cock is falling from full cock to all of the way down or is it stopping at half cock.
maybe the previous owner cleaned it and lost the tiny fly detent and the cock is catching on the halfcock notch.

Exactly my thought. Needs to be looked at by someone with a little flintlock knowledge. Or post a clear pic of the inside of the lock here. At half cock the flint should not touch the frizzen. Should be close but not touch.
 
If not even striking the frizzen and in the excellent shape described I'd bet this was a wall hanger and the owner had no clue, just stuck in a flint for looks? Has it ever been fired?
Yes he shot it but not in a few years. Cleaned it good and hung on wall
 
Exactly my thought. Needs to be looked at by someone with a little flintlock knowledge. Or post a clear pic of the inside of the lock here. At half cock the flint should not touch the frizzen. Should be close but not touch.
Why shouldn't the flint touch the frizzen at half cock? Seems like a good way to align it cross level with the frizzen face and adjust to the 1/3rd down face contact point.
 
Certainly don't want it resting on the frizzen. I don't think there's any official distance to set the flint from the frizzen face, some locks seem to be fussy about it, some not? On both my rifle and musket, both spark great regardless of the distance, within reason. On my Bess right now, the flint is about 3/16" away. I'll probably move that forward now that I noticed it, but it's working fine that way. ?? Same with my rifle.

Not sure about others, but I square my flint with/to the face by leaving the flint a bit loose, let the cock down gently until it touches, flint then "self aligns", gently pull it back and tighten her up. I suppose though, if you just put it on half cock and moved the flint forward until it touched, you could do it that way....if the lock will allow it. Even with the big old flint I've got in Bess now, if I moved it that far forward the jaws would have a poor purchase on the flint.

Anyhow, there is no "should" or "shouldn't" touch the frizzen, not touch, be 1/16" or 1/8th, or five foot from the frizzen face, etc., the lock will dictate what sparks best.

Yes, not exactly clear if the cock is stopping at half cock, or if the flint is missing the frizzen entirely?? Also, at half cock, does the cock "sit up straight", of does it "droop" forward? That seems to be a problem on many of those locks.
 
As an an addendum to Don's advice: another reason to let the hammer down slowly is to make sure the flint isn't going to gouge the side of the barrel. To answer Mr. De Land's question the flint could push the frizzen open and spill the prime or hit the pan and gouge it.
 
question for the group. Looking at an older TC hawken rifle in 50 cal. The rifle, bore and wood are all like new. Double set triggers and brass hardware. Has an existing flint in the jaws secured with leather. Has to be adjusted to strike the frizzen. My question is at half cock should the flint make contact with the frizzen? Mine doesn’t. Lock appears to be working well and at full cock when trigger is pulled cock falls with no hang up but short of frizzen. Think I need a larger flint or at least re-adjust at half cock? Any and all info appreciated. Tenderfoot with flinters experienced with cap locks. thanks Art

The first thing I would do is remove the lock from the stock & see if it works properly off the gun. If it does, then your problem is likely to be the lock mortice. If it still isn't working, find a gunsmith.
Keith.
 
I agree that I'd want the edge of the flint close to the frizzen, but not touching.
Along those lines though, do most of you with the flat side of the flint up or down? I put my flat side up and facing the frizzen when it's been shot, thinking that the narrower angle (less space between flint and frizzen) would be most likely to create the best spark.
 
"Long side" down seems to work for me. Which I think is "flat side down" to you. ?? :) But have not experimented with that much.
 
Ah, the eternal question for installing the flint in one's lock. Is it to be bevel up or bevel down?

I can't tell you. Your lock will tell you by the quantity of sparks that dance in your pan. Often the lock will spark until the flint dulls up and spark production is reduced. Often good sparkling can be restored by simply turning the flint over and exposing a new sharper edge to the frizzen.

Get a good piece of soft leather to grip the flint in the jaws of the cock and watch where the sparks land in the pan.
 
Why shouldn't the flint touch the frizzen at half cock? Seems like a good way to align it cross level with the frizzen face and adjust to the 1/3rd down face contact point.

Shouldn't touch because it may leave the pan cracked slightly open as you are hunting - inviting moisture intrusion.

1/3 of the way down? Why waste 2/3 of your frizzen?. I try for as high up the frizzed as I can get. But then flip the fling so it doesn't wear in a groove on the frizzen.
 
I only have 3 flint locks. 2 are Chambers, one is a new model Thompson Center.
It's been my observation on all 3 that installing a flint bevel down definitely makes the strike point significantly higher on the frizzen. As Stumpkiller noted...takes advantage of the full length of the frizzen. On the downside however....in all 3 cases doing so causes the edge of the flint to strike directly into the frizzen face, rather than "scrape down". Shortens flint life and seems to also cause gouges on the frizzen face.
 
I only have 3 flint locks. 2 are Chambers, one is a new model Thompson Center.
It's been my observation on all 3 that installing a flint bevel down definitely makes the strike point significantly higher on the frizzen. As Stumpkiller noted...takes advantage of the full length of the frizzen. On the downside however....in all 3 cases doing so causes the edge of the flint to strike directly into the frizzen face, rather than "scrape down". Shortens flint life and seems to also cause gouges on the frizzen face.
Yup! My observation as well. If the frizzen works correctly, adjusting the flint to just make contact at half cock won't open it at all any more than setting it back from the face. I just don't see any real reason for such advice.
I've not seen any frizzen operate correctly with the flint making a full swing contact from top to bottom of the face as the cock arc swing would have to both match the frizzen face curve pretty closely and the pivot axis of both would need to be level and square with each other .
 
I’ve noticed the same thing Guys, over my 10 year journey
( Late Bloomer) into the dark side.

Geometry of the lock is what tells me bevel up or bevel down.

I’m not sure if that’s the right answer , but out of the 4 Flintlocks I own, one shoots bevel up, one bevel down & the other two , it really doesn’t seem too mater.

Bevel down strikes higher& more straight into the face of the frizzen , just like you Guys said.

Defiantly shortens the flint life, and gouges the frizzen face more than bevel up.

Length of the flint= Distance from the face, right?

I tend too use a shorter flint, thinking that by it being shorter when placed in the lock bevel down, the shorter flint strikes at a more downward angle than a longer flint.

Right or Wrong, it seems too work for me.
 
Well, usually if it works is what we go with but also keep in mind your rifle can say more than one thing.It could be sparking and igniting well and yet beating itself to death so we need to hear "all" of what it is saying!
 
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