I just ordered a Traditons Mountain rifle, anyone interested in a build post?

Crewdawg445 · Dec 5, 2018

crankshaft said:
Ya, a Kibler kit is great,
but some folks can't get it thru their thick heads that working on a less expensive kit is a "learning experience."

Not the case... Some who really build realize the variation of quality between the two are day and night. Sorry but building a traditions kit isn't a learning experience other than fixing 90% of the screwups from the factory. I've personally built several for others and more hours are logged doing the above than they are worth.

jaybird14 · Dec 5, 2018

I've completed two Traditions kits, A percussion Kentucky pistol and a flinter Kentucky rifle and re-built a CVA Kentucky percussion rifle . I have enjoyed every minute of the builds and shooting them. Ye there are challenges ..... who cares . Build them, shoot them and they are cost effective enough to share them.

jay

Crewdawg445 · Dec 5, 2018

Yes sir they go bang, to each his own! I'm sure the OP will do this kit well.

railshot · Dec 5, 2018

Well, she is on her way back to Traditions, so now the waiting begins.

I guess they will need to see it prior to sending me the replacement, so I am now going to work on the Crockett end cap to make it "right".... LOL, yes, that is still bugging me!
The more I think about it, the Crockett was my favorite when it came to building, and you all helped tremendously with that one.

So much so, I am considering doing anther Crockett..... it just fits me so well.... Hehehh..

azmntman · Dec 5, 2018

I would like to see the Crocket kit available in .36 (or .40) in Flintlock. That I would order real quick

Zonie · Dec 5, 2018

railshot said:
I totally agree with you, along with a few other things.
See, this is my plan after I have built the 4th one..... I am going to review each one, which I have started to do already, look for places to improve / modify to make it a "railshot" rifle.
Heheh, it is fun, and I like to personalize everything I do with my little twist to the theme.
Remove some wood here, add a thingy there, but still keep it simple and tasteful, but make it mine.

Speaking of personalizing your next build and your thinking about moving up to something more challenging in the future, I have a suggestion for you.

When you get your replacement kit, go on line to Muzzleloader Builder's Supply and buy the patchbox shown in this link.

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=5619511.35460&p_id=11141&xm=on

This is a copy of the patchbox found on the Modena Hawken rifle and as such, it was used on a half stock rifle.

This is a steel patchbox cover with pierced side plates and inlaying it into the stock will provide you with a worlds worth of experience. (We can tell you how to do it by using a pointed Exacto knife and small chisels).

It won't be easy but it will sure give you a taste of what is involved in building the more advanced kits.

I know there will be some who say, "Why put a nice patchbox like that on a cheap Traditions kit?" but, this is all about the learning experience, not trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.

crankshaft · Dec 5, 2018

Just a personal preference: I prefer the pineapple, and have used it on one rifle.
I would round off the squared nose cap also.
but that's just me.

railshot · Dec 5, 2018

Zonie said:
Speaking of personalizing your next build and your thinking about moving up to something more challenging in the future, I have a suggestion for you.

When you get your replacement kit, go on line to Muzzleloader Builder's Supply and buy the patchbox shown in this link.

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=5619511.35460&p_id=11141&xm=on

This is a copy of the patchbox found on the Modena Hawken rifle and as such, it was used on a half stock rifle.

This is a steel patchbox cover with pierced side plates and inlaying it into the stock will provide you with a worlds worth of experience. (We can tell you how to do it by using a pointed Exacto knife and small chisels).

It won't be easy but it will sure give you a taste of what is involved in building the more advanced kits.

View attachment 1590

I know there will be some who say, "Why put a nice patchbox like that on a cheap Traditions kit?" but, this is all about the learning experience, not trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.

Now that is what I am talking about Zonie! , and why not "dress up the old girl" like this if that is what I want to do.
Heheh, I know, the old lipstick on a pig thing..... but bottom line is, how do I like it, and how does it shoot?

Heck, I probably won't even shoot these until next summer, and when I do, it will be by myself, on the family's very private 80 acres in central Wisconsin.

I have been doing my research, and there are a couple of web sites that are offering some rather attractive and functional patch boxes etc.
Once done with this Traditions Mountain rifle, I think I am going to use that one as my test bed for doing these modifications from factory condition.

Believe it or not, I am already well over $2k into these kits and hand guns, and have loved every minute of building, taking apart, improving, learning, listening to you guys, and doing it all over again multiple times.....
Money is not the bottom line, as that is available through careful planning on my part, but the bottom line for me is learning, doing, and the big smile I get when I "think" I am done.
Which I never will be in my eyes. Heheheh

Now, back to the Crockett end cap.... I think I got it!

greytop13 · Dec 6, 2018

I received the Mountain Rifle kit today and was surprised/disappointed to see that they installed the buttstock plate, patchbox, and wedge escutcheons before taking a heavy grit sander to the stock. They almost took the heads off the screws and parts of the brass have deep scratches.

railshot · Dec 6, 2018

greytop13 said:
I received the Mountain Rifle kit today and was surprised/disappointed to see that they installed the buttstock plate, patchbox, and wedge escutcheons before taking a heavy grit sander to the stock. They almost took the heads off the screws and parts of the brass have deep scratches.

Mine was the same way, and when I talked to them about my other issue, and I brought that up also.
They told me that is how the factory that makes the kit gets the patch box to fit properly, and it needs to be polished by the builder...
I too wish they would have just let me do it.

Be sure to check how the barrel tang fits in the stock!
Mine was off so much with the attachment screw through to the trigger, that I sent mine back and they are replacing it.
In case you missed that, here is a couple of pictures of mine and why I sent it back.

crankshaft · Dec 6, 2018

I would have done what another poster said.
Just Plug the hole with a dowel...and re-drill.
Not having the trouble of shipping, etc.
It is a" kit."

greytop13 · Dec 6, 2018

crankshaft said:
I would have done what another poster said.
Just Plug the hole with a dowel...and re-drill.
Not having the trouble of shipping, etc.
It is a" kit."

But then the hole is going to be off for attaching the trigger, isn't it?

railshot · Dec 6, 2018

crankshaft said:
I would have done what another poster said.
Just Plug the hole with a dowel...and re-drill.
Not having the trouble of shipping, etc.
It is a" kit."

I would have done that, but then there were other issues with the stock that were wrong besides the mounting hole.

If you look closely to the picture I posted above, with the tang back all the way into the stock, there were gaps / 45's, where the stock met up with the tang on both sides.
This would have caused less support for the barrel when shooting, and potential issues down the road.
The first picture shows it best.

greytop13 said:
But then the hole is going to be off for attaching the trigger, isn't it?

Actually, that would have been fine and the holes would have lined up well, but like I said above, there were other issues that I could not live with.
This particular model came out in 2016, and according to my serial number I had, it was an early model manufactured in 2016.

Black Hand · Dec 6, 2018

railshot said:
I would have done that, but then there were other issues with the stock that were wrong besides the mounting hole.

If you look closely to the picture I posted above, with the tang back all the way into the stock, there were gaps / 45's, where the stock met up with the tang on both sides.
This would have caused less support for the barrel when shooting, and potential issues down the road.
The first picture shows it best.

That is because you didn't seat the barrel. Wood needed to be trimmed at the breech face and tang, then the barrel would have moved back into place and the hole would have been an easy fix. As the lock inlet was already done, moving the barrel back 1/8 inch or so might have thrown off the position of the nipple or touch hole, affecting the trigger and down the rabbit-hole we go.

Another fine example why inexpensive kits really aren't worth it unless you want to spend plenty of time fixing the problems. In the end, you still get a mediocre/poor return on your investment of time & money and a gun that isn't really worth what you paid for the parts...

kansas_volunteer · Dec 6, 2018

The deep scratches in the fittings are undesirable, but the factory method of fitting the brass parts is OK, basically. Wood can be worked close to final shape and the the metal bits installed and everything can then be worked to final shape. I leave the brass (or steel) in place when doing any sanding, but not when using any sort of coarse paper.

Brass screws are fairly easy to find. If slots are almost gone new screws can replace them. Also the slots can be recut with the right files.

Working on inexpensive kits can be beneficial. Railshot has learned the advantages of using proper tools such as rasps instead of sandpaper while working on his Cockette. Image if he had tried to shape a $1,000 kit stock using only sandpaper and no other tools.

Black Hand · Dec 6, 2018

kansas_volunteer said:
Railshot has learned the advantages of using proper tools such as rasps instead of sandpaper while working on his Cockette. Image if he had tried to shape a $1,000 kit stock using only sandpaper and no other tools.

I imagine that he would have asked more questions in an effort to learn best-practices and minimize/eliminate preventable mistakes. Another thing one doesn't get from snap-together kits....

You don't really learn or develop skills by doing the same thing over and over - one needs to stretch and accept challenges to learn.

Crewdawg445 · Dec 7, 2018

Black Hand said:
I imagine that he would have asked more questions in an effort to learn best-practices and minimize/eliminate preventable mistakes. Another thing one doesn't get from snap-together kits....

You don't really learn or develop skills by doing the same thing over and over - one needs to stretch and accept challenges to learn.

Well said on both replies. You can beat a dead horse but it's still dead in the end... Same analogy applies with these inexpensive kits. You get worn out and frustrated fixing mistakes and in the end your time isn't worth the overall value in the end. Not trying to sound disrespectful to anyone but the truth is you get what you pay for... Building a high quality rifle rather it be a Kibler, Chambers or from a plank, they are a long-term investment, a investment that will hold value and likely that value will increase over time. Also for any who thinks a Kibler rifle is a "snap-together kit" (I know it'll surface) wrong assumption as previously mentioned. Every single skill needed to build any other parts set is required. While they are very refined they are NOT PERFECT, one still needs to seat the breech and tang, fit the mountings, drill holes, shape the stock, refine/finish and tune the lock and the list goes on... To the OP, I nor is anyone else looking down on you for building these kit's, it's ultimately your decision and only YOU can examine your strengths and weaknesses. I personally see you as an individual who has taken a love to building which is excellent! What I see is you getting nowhere with these inexpensive kit's... No progression forward, yet again more setbacks! You have the skillset, that is apparent and to keep progressing forward you are very much ready to jump into a kit worthy of your time. If you don't like the Kibler offerings my next recommendation outside a Chmabres kit would be TOTW's trade rifle or their English fowler. Both are relatively easy and while less than a Kibler (in terms of price) are comparable builds in terms of skill. The Kibler will absolutely be more refined but still like the other two, will require a comparable amount of effort and time. I have a passion for all things 18th century history and the building of these beautiful works of art, you owe it to yourself!

railshot · Dec 7, 2018

Gentlemen,
I appreciate the fact that I am building inexpensive kits, that do have issues along with not being all that much of a challenge, and the real challenge is ahead of me with a higher end kit, along with more involved assembly and fitting, and I will get there rather soon if I can find a kit that appeals to me.

I am doing this for fun now, and so far it truly has been fun for me.

Now, I am already looking at higher end kits as my confidence has grown, and I am 100 times more comfortable in what I am capable of at this point from when I started thanks to all of you, so after this build, I am going to take my time, and pick a kit that I like, not based on skill level, but based on shape, style, and fit for me.

I want a Walnut stock, good mechanicals, and like I said, it is going to have to appeal to me as far as style and shape.... this will take a bit to decide, as this will more than likely be my last build once that decision is made...… It will have to be special.

Your recommendations, knowledge, and assistance has gotten me to this point and has been greatly appreciated.

This particular Traditions Mountain Rifle kit that I am going to build is not being built to improve my skills anymore, it is a sentimental replacement for my 1978 CVA mountain rifle (my very first kit build) that my Uncle will not sell back to me, and this is almost a direct copy of that one.

40 years went very fast.....

For comparison, here is a picture I asked my Aunt to send me of my old Mountain rifle a couple of weeks ago.
It still hangs on their living room wall proudly.....

Here is a finished Traditions Mountain Rifle.

Almost a dead ringer other than the patch box, and I have a CVA patch box in German Silver from that era lined up to replace the Traditions one with.
Doing the patch box replacement will definitely be fun, and I am looking forward to it.

Back in 1978, my then 2 year old daughter and I, sat at the kitchen table in our very small apartment, and built that CVA Mountain rifle in the top picture together... well, she watched me and handed me things when I asked for them while learning what a screwdriver, sandpaper, and file etc. was, and I am only doing this one to honor those times and hang on my wall as a sentimental item.

Hang in there, cause I will be "moving on up".

Terry Townsend · Dec 7, 2018

jaybird14 said:
I've completed two Traditions kits, A percussion Kentucky pistol and a flinter Kentucky rifle and re-built a CVA Kentucky percussion rifle . I have enjoyed every minute of the builds and shooting them. Ye there are challenges ..... who cares . Build them, shoot them and they are cost effective enough to share them.

jay

Terry Townsend · Dec 7, 2018

I have bought 2 traditions kits from Muzzle-loaders.com
Everything fit fine except for shaping the stock and bluing the barrel parts not to it

I just ordered a Traditons Mountain rifle, anyone interested in a build post?

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