Click...cap didn’t go off

Tb54 · Dec 3, 2018

Im shooting a .54 CVA, 32” bbl muzzleloader. No model name or number. Over the years I’ve noticed from time to time the cap won’t fire the first time I drop the hammer on it, almost always does the second time, and if it don’t, the third time will fire. I’ve always figured it was the cap not seating on the nipple all the way, so I’ve gotten in the habit of lowering the hammer on the cap, and with my thumb, pressing on the hammer spur to put pressure on the cap to press it onto the nipple as firm as possible. This habit minimizes the problem, but it still happens often enough that I wonder if it will fire. Just one more issue to navigate. The nipple on the gun now is a new CCI number 11 nipple, as are the caps I get, CCI number 11. Is this normal for percussion rifles, or CVA rifles? The suggestion was made before that perhaps my spring may be weak. Any way to verify that? Also, some put musket nipples /caps on their rifles. Are they more reliable? I may try that when I continue refining my load. Any other suggestions?

necchi · Dec 3, 2018

No it's not normal.
Locks and triggers need lubrication,, it needs to be done on a regular basis and helps a lot.
Check that the lock screw isn't too tight, binding the spring.
Try that stuff first,,
p.s. no musket caps aren't the fix.

Carbon 6 · Dec 4, 2018

Check the hammer cup also for spent caps stuck in it. The most I ever removed was 7 spent caps) also consider replacing the nipple. Nipples mushroom out from repeated firing. (and dry firing) Especially on CVA's this can both shorten the nipple and make them not seat properly.

What Necchi said is also correct.

Le Loup · Dec 4, 2018

Tb54 said:
Im shooting a .54 CVA, 32” bbl muzzleloader. No model name or number. Over the years I’ve noticed from time to time the cap won’t fire the first time I drop the hammer on it, almost always does the second time, and if it don’t, the third time will fire. I’ve always figured it was the cap not seating on the nipple all the way, so I’ve gotten in the habit of lowering the hammer on the cap, and with my thumb, pressing on the hammer spur to put pressure on the cap to press it onto the nipple as firm as possible. This habit minimizes the problem, but it still happens often enough that I wonder if it will fire. Just one more issue to navigate. The nipple on the gun now is a new CCI number 11 nipple, as are the caps I get, CCI number 11. Is this normal for percussion rifles, or CVA rifles? The suggestion was made before that perhaps my spring may be weak. Any way to verify that? Also, some put musket nipples /caps on their rifles. Are they more reliable? I may try that when I continue refining my load. Any other suggestions?

No, this is not usual or common. Sometimes you get a rifle with the hammer out of alignment, the sides of the cup on the hammer rub on the nipple. Make sure the nipple is centered in the hammer cup when the hammer is down.
Keith.

Grimord · Dec 4, 2018

You have received some good advice already in the above posts. I would look for some binding of the hammer on wood, or as someone said the lock bolt is too tight. On some locks, the lock screww threads thru the lock plate near the hammer. If this is screwed in too tight, the end of the screw could be hanging up the fall of the hammer.
Also, as mentioned, using Musket nipple/caps is not a solution and in many cases causes more issues with alignment.

Sparkitoff · Dec 4, 2018

My friend has a CVA .54 Hawken that he picked up last Nov. He had intermittent discharges with a new Hot Shot nipple. He found a brass screw that was very close to diameter of the recess in the hammer face. He cut the threads off and tapped the head into the recess. It worked. Early on it fell out once or twice but it does get mashed a little and will stay put. 13 months and 150 rounds later he has not had that problem again. I asked how he would ever get it out if necessary and he says he intends to use a fine drill bit and grab it enough to work it out. Someone here may point out a down-side to this unconventional "fix", but it is working in this case.

Tb54 · Dec 4, 2018

Thanks guys. I intend to get this rifle working, better than I realized it could, which is due to my lurking around on this site the last month. I believe I will stick to this side of the sport, and my boy will too. He’s had a lot of fun this season useing my dads TC...which works better than my CVA.

Sparkitoff, what solved the ignition issue? The flatter striking surface? More level to the primer hitting it square? I guess I’m asking why he chose to try that?

Sparkitoff · Dec 4, 2018

I just asked him via phone. He said it addressed a number of things at once. Shortened the hammer stroke, provided a different surface area, changed the angle of the flat striking the cap and added slight weight to the hammer. He also said something about hammer slip - when there is a bit of forward motion that takes place after initial hammer contact with the cap even as it goes off. Apparently in his opinion this eliminated that tiny bit of movement. He told me he experimented with no charge in the rifle by backing the nipple out one full turn at a time to see if it made a difference. What he said was, just when you think it is fixed you'd get a dud strike. He couldn't make a definitive assessment in regard to nipple height. On a whim, he tried this and it worked with the same nipples he had tightened down appropriately. I did ask if someone suggested this and he said "no", he came up with that on his own.

hanshi · Dec 4, 2018

For reliable ignition with a caplock: The hammer must move freely and powered with a strong spring. The nipple should be hit squarely by the hammer. Percussion caps must be of a size that seats completely on the nipple, and the nipple should have no "mushrooming" of the tip. Flash channel should be completely clean and dry.

Vomir le Chien · Dec 4, 2018

Couple of things to look at,Is the Nipple Mushroomed from years of use,not letting the cap set deep enough,reads like it might be,repeated striking sets the nipple down and it finally goes off,Is the spring that drives the hammer weak,out of alignment ??

tenngun · Dec 4, 2018

My first ML rifle was a mowry Allen and Thurber rifle. The spring was a little week and I had lots of misfires. I made a small wedge and tapped it to strengthen the spring just a bit. And it worked great. At the time I didn’t know how easy it was to break a main spring. I was lucky, but I do wonder that you have a weak spring.
But...
Try the other fixes first

Zonie · Dec 4, 2018

Almost every case I've seen where a cap doesn't fire when the hammer falls is due to the nipple being slightly larger than it should be for the brand of caps I'm shooting.

Lightly chucking the nipple in a variable speed electric drill to rotate it while I hold a flat file against the side of the cone removes just a few thousandths of an inch of material and it always allows me to easily seat the cap so its priming mixture is sitting right on top of the nipple.
With the priming sitting right on the top of the nipple it doesn't take a real hard hammer fall to fire it.

Click...cap didn’t go off

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