• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades
  • Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Perfection in metal and wood finishes

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
As a tool and diemaker for a number of years, precision was taught the first day of my 5 yr apprenticeship and "perfection" was always the goal...never quite achieved, but most of the time it was very close.

So when I started building MLers in 1976 the natural thing for me to do was to continue my quest for "perfection" and the result was the same...never achieved it but always came close.

The level of workmanship by the original makers never concerned me partly because they were building for their livelihood and w/ me it is a hobby. There was in addition, a different customer base....many buyers treated their guns as every day "tools" and didn't want to pay for details and workmanship which increased the price.

So....whatever the skill level of present day hobby builders, work to the best of your ability....which requires a lot of patience......Fred
 
Question for the forum. How perfect do you think the metal and wood were finished on long rifles in the 1700s? Did they finish them to the point of perfection that I see on this forum? The photos I see are beautiful not a flaw in the stock or the metal. Hours are spent to make them so. On a typical rifle build, not a presentation piece going to a Governor or such, would they have taken the time and did they have the equipment to make them perfect?
I love the look of a perfect rifle, but I also love the look of a rifle that shows it was made by hand with some of the builders soul imparted on it. I am planning my first build and just contemplating theses things. Thanks for your opinions.
The good builders tried for perfection the bad builders didn't care much, Same as now. Only there were no unemployment checks then so you had to compete more.
 
Question for the forum. How perfect do you think the metal and wood were finished on long rifles in the 1700s? Did they finish them to the point of perfection that I see on this forum? The photos I see are beautiful not a flaw in the stock or the metal. Hours are spent to make them so. On a typical rifle build, not a presentation piece going to a Governor or such, would they have taken the time and did they have the equipment to make them perfect?
I love the look of a perfect rifle, but I also love the look of a rifle that shows it was made by hand with some of the builders soul imparted on it. I am planning my first build and just contemplating theses things. Thanks for your opinions.

In colonial periods they used homemade dyes to stain woods; this often had to be applied several times to get a desirable tint as most dyes back then were not strong.

The big affect on rifle and musket color was Linseed oil; they'd cut it with spirits sometimes to thin it out. The general affect of Linseed on walnut or maple is that it has a 'popping effect'. After dozens of coats over a long period the linseed hardens and turns the wood a darker color.

The linseed they used was also organic, not boiled. Organic linseed produces a very nice coating.

A lot of guns were also painted.

Kit Ravensheer was a big fan of using Tung Oil as a final finish because it produces a very thin coating.

For fixing guns a type of adhesive was used ,made mostly from drying wax (same stuff used to seal letters but stronger).
 
Question for the forum. How perfect do you think the metal and wood were finished on long rifles in the 1700s? Did they finish them to the point of perfection that I see on this forum?

There is no possible way that a 1700s rifle, build in the 1700s, by a 1700s riflebuilder could compete with the rifles built by the guys on this site. We have just better stuff to work with. A light above our bench is just one little thing that makes attention to detail better. We have great "Sharp" tools, electric stuff, drill presses, lathe's, mills, oxyacetylene, Mig, Tig, great files, sandpaper, time, Air conditioning, heat, light, chemicals and so forth.

What those 1700s riflebuilders did with what they had to work with is just incredible. We, as a whole in this day and age, are obsessed with details.

I absolutely love the look of those old rifles, gouges, slips, "Oh manure"s and all.

HH
 
There is no possible way that a 1700s rifle, build in the 1700s, by a 1700s riflebuilder could compete with the rifles built by the guys on this site. We have just better stuff to work with. A light above our bench is just one little thing that makes attention to detail better. We have great "Sharp" tools, electric stuff, drill presses, lathe's, mills, oxyacetylene, Mig, Tig, great files, sandpaper, time, Air conditioning, heat, light, chemicals and so forth.

What those 1700s riflebuilders did with what they had to work with is just incredible. We, as a whole in this day and age, are obsessed with details.

I absolutely love the look of those old rifles, gouges, slips, "Oh manure"s and all.
Question for the forum. How perfect do you think the metal and wood were finished on long rifles in the 1700s? Did they finish them to the point of perfection that I see on this forum? The photos I see are beautiful not a flaw in the stock or the metal. Hours are spent to make them so. On a typical rifle build, not a presentation piece going to a Governor or such, would they have taken the time and did they have the equipment to make them perfect?
I love the look of a perfect rifle, but I also love the look of a rifle that shows it was made by hand with some of the builders soul imparted on it. I am planning my first build and just contemplating theses things. Thanks for your opinions.

Gunsmithing took a very long time; and it was a trade with a very high return.

Colonial gunmakers needed to have a variety of skills; woodworking, blacksmithing, engraving, carving and also a very astute capability of measuring and geometry. Most private smalls shop gunmakers had a few apprentices working under them to help out with the workload. The larger gun makers had almost an assembly line of workers doing individual tasks, one would work barrels, one would work locks, etc.

Tools were limited to manual tools, hand drills, files, chisels, hand turning lathes.

Regarding woodworking; colonial gunmakers used a variety of dyes to give the guns color, some were painted. Linseed oil was the most essential item, several coats were applied and this would darken with age. More expensive gunmakers used other types of oils such as early varieties of tung oils traded with China, however Linseed was preferred because it was widely available.

Regarding mistakes; gunsmiths worked very slowly; today we can work a gun from a kit in about 40-80 hours with household power tools and some advanced tools. It might take a gunsmith an entire day to drill and tap a lock plate to precise measurements and other day to turn iron parts to steel.

Regarding mistakes; mistakes to stocks were likely acceptable because they're easier to fix or hide. Mistakes to the barrels, or locks .... I wouldn't want to be in the shop on that day.

But the best way to learn is to buy an advanced kit from Track, or the Rifle Shoppe and work on with household tools. Not saying to put aside the power drill but give it a shot. A place to work with a good vice and anvil edge, Files... The file will be the tool most used, you'll need a few types of files, hacks saw, a sanding block with paper, a set of good chisels, set of rasps are helpful, a drill, rulers, a set of bitts, appropriate taps and countersinks and center punches, strong epoxy for some small inlays.

Some small helpful things are drill jigs for hitting pin holes on lugs.

Drill presses are always helpful, but not required if your slow and steady, start small.

for inletting colonial gunsmiths used candle black to identify areas in the stock that need to be reduced for wood to metal fit.

Nick


HH
Question for the forum. How perfect do you think the metal and wood were finished on long rifles in the 1700s? Did they finish them to the point of perfection that I see on this forum? The photos I see are beautiful not a flaw in the stock or the metal. Hours are spent to make them so. On a typical rifle build, not a presentation piece going to a Governor or such, would they have taken the time and did they have the equipment to make them perfect?
I love the look of a perfect rifle, but I also love the look of a rifle that shows it was made by hand with some of the builders soul imparted on it. I am planning my first build and just contemplating theses things. Thanks for your opinions.

I have the video of the Gunsmith of Williamsburg.
Question for the forum. How perfect do you think the metal and wood were finished on long rifles in the 1700s? Did they finish them to the point of perfection that I see on this forum? The photos I see are beautiful not a flaw in the stock or the metal. Hours are spent to make them so. On a typical rifle build, not a presentation piece going to a Governor or such, would they have taken the time and did they have the equipment to make them perfect?
I love the look of a perfect rifle, but I also love the look of a rifle that shows it was made by hand with some of the builders soul imparted on it. I am planning my first build and just contemplating theses things. Thanks for your opinions.
 
The general affect of Linseed on walnut or maple is that it has a 'popping effect'. After dozens of coats over a long period the linseed hardens and turns the wood a darker color.

The linseed they used was also organic, not boiled. Organic linseed produces a very nice coating.
Linseed oil makes a poor finish and is not waterproof. Varnishes of the period contained linseed oil and other compounds including dryers, which were essential for shortening the drying time - see https://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives/vol5no2/articles/mbo52-1.shtml
The linseed oil can be added in very thin coats and allowed to dry thoroughly (days/weeks) before another coat is added. Sunlight hastens polymerization ("hardens").

Yes, linseed oil will "dry" after a much longer time than is desirable for a gun finish. The oil oxidizes over time and darkens - it doesn't change the color of the wood (except for the slight darkening that is see with all finishes).
 
In colonial periods they used homemade dyes to stain woods; this often had to be applied several times to get a desirable tint as most dyes back then were not strong.

The big affect on rifle and musket color was Linseed oil; they'd cut it with spirits sometimes to thin it out. The general affect of Linseed on walnut or maple is that it has a 'popping effect'. After dozens of coats over a long period the linseed hardens and turns the wood a darker color.

The linseed they used was also organic, not boiled. Organic linseed produces a very nice coating.

A lot of guns were also painted.

Kit Ravensheer was a big fan of using Tung Oil as a final finish because it produces a very thin coating.

For fixing guns a type of adhesive was used ,made mostly from drying wax (same stuff used to seal letters but stronger).

I use
Linseed oil makes a poor finish and is not waterproof. Varnishes of the period contained linseed oil and other compounds including dryers, which were essential for shortening the drying time - see https://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives/vol5no2/articles/mbo52-1.shtml
The linseed oil can be added in very thin coats and allowed to dry thoroughly (days/weeks) before another coat is added. Sunlight hastens polymerization ("hardens").

Yes, linseed oil will "dry" after a much longer time than is desirable for a gun finish. The oil oxidizes over time and darkens - it doesn't change the color of the wood (except for the slight darkening that is see with all finishes).

I use linseed after staining, I've always thought it brings out the grain. My final finish is Formbys Tung Oil, I've used True-Oil before for older stocks. For rain I apply a coat of heavy wax, only if I'm out in the rain with it.
 
Back
Top