Cleaning your ML

If you are cleaning the barrel with boiling water the old way I see no reason why your barrel should not be clean. I only ever use sweet oil or neetsfoot oil.
Keith.

Hi All, I have been burning BP since about '68, own 5 rifles, 3 shotguns, 4 revolvers, and a pistol. All have shiney bright bores. Two of the most powerful solvents around are water and alcohol. Add a surfactant to loosen up dirt, grime, fouling and you have a truly excellent bore cleaner. Up here in N MN we call it windshield washer fluid. It costs $2-3 bucks/gal which will outlast most of us reading this forum. Try it, you will like it.

Mike Suri said:

Well cleaning your ML can be sometimes a challenge! But my question has to do with oiling or lubricating the bore when it is clean and dry. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding the use of Bore Butter or WonderLube but I have never had a rust issue when using these products. Yes I do realize that Colorado is a much dryer state than others so no rust! I sometimes use Balistol or even Remoil but I do know that petrolium products and real black powder don't mix ! But when using a traditional grease often times the patch comes out black and dirty. Not all of my ML come out this way, but some! Has any one else experinced this problem with there guns?? And why do you think this happens ? Thanks for your help with this confusing problem.

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Been shooting BP since early 70's. You can clean any ML'er in 20 minutes or less. and that includes getting cleaning gear out and putting it up. Stick a tooth pick or small feather in your vent hole. Put a small amount of hot water in the barrel and swab with a cleaning patch, Pour water out and continue with patches till all residue is gone. Use Bore Butter or plain old motor oil as the final swab in the bore. Plain old light weight machine oil for exterior wipe down. Clean the interior lock parts by spraying with brake cleaner and follow up with a shot of WD-40. Done. Go on with your day.

That depends on how you define "natural"

From the MSDS

Ballistol contains medicinal grade mineral oil, alkaline salts of oleic acid, several alcohols, Benzyl Acetate and an oil from vegetal seeds. The mineral oil is unchlorinated and conforms to the specifications of US Pharmacopeia XX.
Volatile Organic Components (VOCs)
As an aerosol Ballistol contains 33.8% VOCs. As a non-aerosol it contains 5.3% VOCs.
Propellants
Ballistol aerosols contain A-70 (a Butane, Propane blend ) as propellants. The pressure inside the full can is 7-7.5 bars. Ballistol aerosols contain 14% Isohexane as a thinner.
Ballistol aerosols contain 30% wrung out athletic sock sweat

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Fixed it for ya'

Road_Clam said:

Ballistol aerosols contain 30% wrung out athletic sock sweat

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That smell is the Benzyl Acetate.

If we dissect the ingredient list we can see that we have, oil, soap, alcohol, fragrance, corrosion inhibitor, and a propellant and thinner for aerosol versions.
The essential ingredients are basically the same for many homemade concoctions.

I use water at a tepid temperature. I tried hot tap water but I found it cause flash rusting that I could see form in the bore.
Tepid temp didn’t create rust before I could dry the metal and oil it. The high heat of the hot water really sped up corrosion.

Every now and the I’m tempted to use Balistol as a oil/rust preventer but one whiff and it’s nope that stuff is for patch lubing only and diluted at that never used it straight.

I also stopped using boiling water and now use hot tap water. Mostly to assure the soap goes fully into solution. I use a few drops of Murphy's Oil Soap as it is a cheap modern equivalent to "soft soap" that has been around for millennia. I used to shave a bar of Ivory as needed . . . until I learned bar soap is just soft soap with salt added. Don't need more salt in my bore.

When you clean a rifle with a pinned barrel bo you remove it from the stock? If not how do you keep the water from getting under the barrel and causing a serious rust problem?
I am so new to this that I can't even spell BLK PWDR

I use a method I picked up on the ALR site a while back for pinned barrels. I leave the barrel on the gun and take off the lock. Clean the touch hole area and then put a piece of rubber roofing on the touch hole topped with two real strong magnets. I think each one puts like 16lbs pressure which seals it. No leaks and only takes a second to put it on the gun. Then fill the barrel with tepid water and let it sit while I clean and oil the lock. Then I dump the water from the barrel and put back in a drop of Dawn detergent and more water and scrub, flush and dry. Shot of WD40 and mop it out. Generally I do this before I leave our range and immediately after shooting. Like someone said above 20 minutes or so and I don't have to listen to my dear wife of 51 years with the sensitive nose about how bad it stinks. If I am not going to use the gun for a while I will follow up the next day with a patch down the barrel with Barricade on it and wax the gun with Renaissance Wax. Over the years I have checked the underside of a few of mine and no rust so don't worry about it. I have seen originals that are rusty on the outside and no rust on the bottom. So like I said not a worry.

Im a newbie and been shooting for a couple of years. Ive use barricade and never a problem. Im told that it also is a slight lubricant also. Been very satisfied.

coloradoclyde said:

Throw away the bore butter, wonder lube rem oil and ballistol....They are all petroleum products.

If you're going to use a petroleum product use a rust preventative like G96

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I don't think so....this is from the T/C website.

9. Is T/C's Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter really that good? How does it work?

It sure is, and if you've got some friends, who are using it, ask them. Our All Natural "Bore Butter" is absent of any petroleum based oil, and contains an ingredient which seasons the bore with repeated use, just as you would season a cast iron skillet. Tar, used to pave highways, is made by heating petroleum based oil. In other words, heat plus petroleum oil equals tar! That's what causes the heavy fouling when shooting a muzzleloader with conventional petroleum based lubes. The problem of heavy fouling was one not encountered in the old days, as the oils used then were all natural' whale oil, bear fat, deer tallow, etc. Petroleum based oils were not discovered until the mid-1800's, and during the Civil War, fouling did become a problem.

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THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF WONDERFUL PRODUCTS TO HELP YOU CLEAN YOUR BARREL..
A GOOD TEST OF ANY CLEANERS IS TO RUN A TIGHT WHITE PATCH UP AND DOWN THE BORE ABOUT THREE OR FOUR DAYS AFTER CLEANING. IF THE PATCH REMAINS WHITE AND SHOWS NO TRACE OF ORANGE RUST OR BLACK SCHMUTZ OF RESIDUE, YOU HAVE A GOOD CLEANER.

FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS I WAS ABLE TO DO ANY SHOOTING I USED MY OWN VERY SIMPLE METHOD THAT IS QUICK AND CAN BE DONE AT THE RANGE.
USING WHATEVER YOU USE AS MOOSE MILK WIPE THE BORE TILL YOU ARE PULLING CLEAN WIPING PATCHES, THEN COAT THE BORE WIRH WD 40. MAKING SURE ALL SURFACES ARE WET WITH IT. THAT'S IT BUT I ALSO KEEP THE WIPING ROD IN THE BORE TILL NEXT TIME T THE RANGE. WHEN YOU WILL FIRE A BLANK CHARGE OF 20 OR 30 GRAINS TO REMOVE THE WD-40 AND PRE FOUL THE BARREL.
NO HOT SOAPY WATER WHICH BOTH CLEANS AND HARMS THE STEEL,
DUTCH SCHOULTZ

Mike Suri said:

Thanks for all your suggestions but my real thought was why, after a clean dry bore, the grease comes out black on the greasy patch? When using a petroleum products, not so ! Just seams weird to me !!

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Mike Suri said:

Well cleaning your ML can be sometimes a challenge! But my question has to do with oiling or lubricating the bore when it is clean and dry. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding the use of Bore Butter or WonderLube but I have never had a rust issue when using these products. Yes I do realize that Colorado is a much dryer state than others so no rust! I sometimes use Balistol or even Remoil but I do know that petrolium products and real black powder don't mix ! But when using a traditional grease often times the patch comes out black and dirty. Not all of my ML come out this way, but some! Has any one else experinced this problem with there guns?? And why do you think this happens ? Thanks for your help with this confusing problem.

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I use a bore lube by Brownells. The outside I oil with a light coat of motor oil, the stock I just recoat with linseed or tung, buff down so its not too glossy.

Regarding cleaning, I take out the lock and barrel and clean it with dish detergent. The I dry it with a hair dryer and drying salts ( the small packets you find in shoes and medication bottles).

The lock I take apart, clean and grease..

Don't forget to clean your ramrod too.

I live in the NE and bear grease is pretty dern hard to come by! also it is against the law to kill them. so BORE BUTTER it is. I have put it in my weapons for long storage and had no problems when i take them out to shoot.

Mike Suri said:

Well cleaning your ML can be sometimes a challenge! But my question has to do with oiling or lubricating the bore when it is clean and dry. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding the use of Bore Butter or WonderLube but I have never had a rust issue when using these products. Yes I do realize that Colorado is a much dryer state than others so no rust! I sometimes use Balistol or even Remoil but I do know that petrolium products and real black powder don't mix ! But when using a traditional grease often times the patch comes out black and dirty. Not all of my ML come out this way, but some! Has any one else experinced this problem with there guns?? And why do you think this happens ? Thanks for your help with this confusing problem.

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For my stocks that are coated with linseed I cleaning with mineral oil, dry then Linseed .... I also use surf board wax it’s very water resistant.

My Early Lancaster .54 Coleraine 44" swamped barrel and other parts have only been cleaned with 130+ degree hot water and boiling Murphy' Oil soap. Wiped clean and dried. It was built in 1994 and shot ten plus time at least once a week since, and wiped if not shot. In all those years I've never had bore rust. Before 2004 I shot at least 3 times a week. now about bi-weekly +. You can't clean, then oil and let 'er set, she will start rust. You need to have a cleaning, wiping regimen to care for your guns, ALL GUNS. Their just another pet of mine. Treat them wrong, they'll disappoint you!
I've been shooting ML since 1978. In 2013, I sold off my Goex empty cans to a vendor for $1.50. I sold him 275 empty cans for $400 (11 boxes 25 cans to a box less 50 caps)I still have about 20 some cans. Trek camp candle lanterns. Probably save on his supply stock price. I guess you can say I've shot a bunch in my 40 years of ML.

Well, this child used to use YCA #103 muzzleloading lube. The manufacturer was William Young, hence the YCA = Young Country Arms. It's a fairly stiff lube, comes in a screw lid jar. William claimed the rest of the name came from a test he ran when he started making it ... that he fired 103 shots without cleaning the bore, starting with a clean, dry bore. He also claimed if you cleaned the rifle with hot water and mild soap, then wiped the bore with a patch covered in #103 and then put it away, it would never rust. I didn't believe him, so ran my own tests. I disremember how many shots I got but it was over 130 and I stopped because I was just flat tired. The gun was still loading easy and shooting true. I cleaned it with hot water and a dab of Dawn dish soap, rinsed with clean hot water, and dried it thoroughly --- then swabbed the bore with #103 and put it away. I checked that rifle every day for 2 weeks and didn't get a speck of rust! I've used YCA #103 ever since. The problem is, William got put out of business by the tax people in California and I'm runninng out of the supply I had. Here's hoping y'all come up with a good alternative. Soon.

Mike Suri said:

Well cleaning your ML can be sometimes a challenge! But my question has to do with oiling or lubricating the bore when it is clean and dry. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding the use of Bore Butter or WonderLube but I have never had a rust issue when using these products. Yes I do realize that Colorado is a much dryer state than others so no rust! I sometimes use Balistol or even Remoil but I do know that petrolium products and real black powder don't mix ! But when using a traditional grease often times the patch comes out black and dirty. Not all of my ML come out this way, but some! Has any one else experinced this problem with there guns?? And why do you think this happens ? Thanks for your help with this confusing problem.

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I too have used WonderLube to protect the bore for years (which I thought to be a non-petroleum based product). I thoroughly clean the barrel with hot water followed by a few patches with a commercial cleaner and then dry the bore thoroughly. I run a patch with WonderLube through, let it sit for a day, and then wipe with a dry patch.Sometimes the dry patch comes out with a rust-colored residue (not rust) that I think is dry WonderLube. I live in MA and have not had any problem with rust in the bores of my several flintlocks. The patches never do come out completely clean at best they are light gray. Yet, the bores are bright and shiny. I've puzzled as to why the patches never come out "white". I check the bores periodically and have never noticed any rust. As an aside I'm sure that modern oil and rust preventive products are excellent. I use them in my smokeless firearms. However, WonderLube both as a bore protectant and patch lube has served me fine in my muzzleloaders. I also use it in the bores of my black powder cartridge rifles. The last couple of years I've used FrogLube, a bio-based product, as a substitute for WonderLube. I've not detected a difference so far.

For years lubrication of my Lyman GPR has been done with Hoppe’s gun oil, but I know any modern gun oil would do as well maybe even better. For corrosion protection I used EEZOX.
Currently I’m testing LubeGard Premium Universal Lubricant as both a lube and corrosion protector the test is still on going.

A bore well oiled with a light gun oil, the oil keeps working its way slowly over days to get under and lift stubborn fouling.
So when you dry patch out days later prior to firing your rifle again your dry patches have fouling on it that wasn’t there when you thoroughly cleaned the bore last time. That you used Kroil oil even more fouling would have appeared on your patches. Patch out with Zippo lighter fuel to clean out the petroleum oil if you got petro oil paranoia. I don’t as I know how to clean out petro oil, a drop of Dawn and grease is gone.

Dr5x said:

THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF WONDERFUL PRODUCTS TO HELP YOU CLEAN YOUR BARREL..
A GOOD TEST OF ANY CLEANERS IS TO RUN A TIGHT WHITE PATCH UP AND DOWN THE BORE ABOUT THREE OR FOUR DAYS AFTER CLEANING. IF THE PATCH REMAINS WHITE AND SHOWS NO TRACE OF ORANGE RUST OR BLACK SCHMUTZ OF RESIDUE, YOU HAVE A GOOD CLEANER.

FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS I WAS ABLE TO DO ANY SHOOTING I USED MY OWN VERY SIMPLE METHOD THAT IS QUICK AND CAN BE DONE AT THE RANGE.
USING WHATEVER YOU USE AS MOOSE MILK WIPE THE BORE TILL YOU ARE PULLING CLEAN WIPING PATCHES, THEN COAT THE BORE WIRH WD 40. MAKING SURE ALL SURFACES ARE WET WITH IT. THAT'S IT BUT I ALSO KEEP THE WIPING ROD IN THE BORE TILL NEXT TIME T THE RANGE. WHEN YOU WILL FIRE A BLANK CHARGE OF 20 OR 30 GRAINS TO REMOVE THE WD-40 AND PRE FOUL THE BARREL.
NO HOT SOAPY WATER WHICH BOTH CLEANS AND HARMS THE STEEL,
DUTCH SCHOULTZ

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Dutch;

Since Moose Milk is mostly water, the WD-40 must probably be the rust preventative. What is the difference between using your method and hydro washing the bore AND BREECH area with soapy water pour down the barrel?

My question to you Dutch is, with your cleaning method, how do you clean the breech area between the bottom of the barrel and the ignition point, especially the small channel to the breech? This area is especially enclosed in a cap lock ML. With the hooked breech cap lock I have the ability to pull the barrel off and clean it in a pail. Please let me know how you can get it cleaner than that? Thanks!