Patched round balls or conicals for big game?

tenngun · Apr 15, 2018

I don’t think that guy is coming with bad info, but instead lack of experience. It’s hard to get a ml to preform as well as a 30-30, on paper. And a 30 -30 would be a poor elk gun. Ball or conical no ml can be used like a modren hunting rifle.
You can’t take shots with an ml that would be easy kills for a .300 mag.
So the guy is kinda right. A ball shooting ml in the hands of an inexperienced ml shooter would be unethical. Same for archery tackle. An arrow is unethical if the shooter is misusing it.
Lots of elk went down to 30-30s .... in the hands of experienced shooters
Lead balls don’t kill animals, hunters kill animals. Would that fit in a bumper sticker?

roger thomas · Apr 15, 2018

I have shot somewhere in the neighborhood of a dozen deer with patched round balls using 45, 50, and 54 calibers. I agree with the other posts in that the pbr is quite effective and on a double lung shot I almost always get complete pass throughs. The longest shot I,ve ever taken with a pbr was 78 yrds on a mature white tail doe.That was with a 45 cal 80 grains of 3fff and it too was a complete passthrough. I don't think I,ve ever had a deer go more than 50 yrds after being shot with a pbr, however and this is the point of my reply... I often times have very little to no blood trail. This hasn't been a big problem as I stated they never go too far but it always bothers me a bit because what if I made a marginal shot, how would I track it? Ive been told I should shoot a bit lower on the body so when the chest cavity fills up it will pour out. I don't take high back shots but rather aim for the middle right behind the shoulder. What do you guys say about it? Have you fellas had similar experience with the pbr. By the way, I do feel like my 54 with a 90 grain charge of 2ff is the most effective at dropping them quick.

azmntman · Apr 15, 2018

My point of aim is the line at the back of the front shoulder 1/3 up. If slightly further than site in range I would aim center body. I mostly hunt from ambush at water or fence lines though and most shots are about 60-70 yd, have made several heart shots with this aiming picture.

Never really paid much attention to blood trail as most go down within site :idunno:

ff I did once hit a large cow in the heart with a 30-30. She was alive 20 min later when I came up to her with ropes n such and jumped, ran and took another shot to finish? I have never had a BP shot elk do that?

smoothshooter · Apr 15, 2018

The guy from CP & W is probably really good at video games, though.

azmntman · Apr 15, 2018

Yep. Was there a Saab in the parking lot? :rotf:

longcruise · Apr 15, 2018

Myself and those I hunt with have found a PRB in a .54 to be very effective on elk. 80 to 120 grains of powder with .80 being perfectly adequate.

So, IMO, you don't need a conical unless you are shooting a .50. the new regs require such.

If you decide to go with the REAL bullets, be sure test accuracy out to the range you might hunt at. When I tried them in both a .50 & .54 TC Hawken they shot overlapping holes at 50 yards and 12 to 14 Inc groups at 100.

Good luck with the draw.

dsayer · Apr 15, 2018

Skychief said:
I thought everybody knew that roundballs are worthless for hunting anything bigger than a gopher.

Poor ballistic coefficients causing rapid deceleration and rainbow trajectories, not to mention, they have no forward nor aft. It's just not right. Unnatural.

Then, there's all that fooling around with patch material and messy lubes. Will the patch hold together? Will the lube freeze to my bore. Really more fuss than a man should have to face.

Penetration? They're know to bounce off ribs at any distance.

Accuracy? We all know they pale In comparison to elongated bullets. If not, they'd be loading them in factory fresh brass loads. Right?

If a guy has only roundballs to hunt with, may as well stay home not chance being caught using them. Worse yet is the near guarantee of a cripple. :nono:

Best regards, Skychief.

PS, all of the above was written tongue in cheek and its the opinion of the author that it's all........... :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull:

Hahaha! Thanks Skychief's. I'll take your opinions into consideration. :haha:

dsayer · Apr 15, 2018

tenngun said:
I don’t think that guy is coming with bad info, but instead lack of experience. It’s hard to get a ml to preform as well as a 30-30, on paper. And a 30 -30 would be a poor elk gun. Ball or conical no ml can be used like a modren hunting rifle.
You can’t take shots with an ml that would be easy kills for a .300 mag.
So the guy is kinda right. A ball shooting ml in the hands of an inexperienced ml shooter would be unethical. Same for archery tackle. An arrow is unethical if the shooter is misusing it.
Lots of elk went down to 30-30s .... in the hands of experienced shooters
Lead balls don’t kill animals, hunters kill animals. Would that fit in a bumper sticker?

Lots of truth here. The guy didn't know me and probably doesn't have much (or any) experience with traditional muzzleloaders.

dsayer · Apr 15, 2018

Nebraska boy 71 said:
I have shot somewhere in the neighborhood of a dozen deer with patched round balls using 45, 50, and 54 calibers. I agree with the other posts in that the pbr is quite effective and on a double lung shot I almost always get complete pass throughs. The longest shot I,ve ever taken with a pbr was 78 yrds on a mature white tail doe.That was with a 45 cal 80 grains of 3fff and it too was a complete passthrough. I don't think I,ve ever had a deer go more than 50 yrds after being shot with a pbr, however and this is the point of my reply... I often times have very little to no blood trail. This hasn't been a big problem as I stated they never go too far but it always bothers me a bit because what if I made a marginal shot, how would I track it? Ive been told I should shoot a bit lower on the body so when the chest cavity fills up it will pour out. I don't take high back shots but rather aim for the middle right behind the shoulder. What do you guys say about it? Have you fellas had similar experience with the pbr. By the way, I do feel like my 54 with a 90 grain charge of 2ff is the most effective at dropping them quick.

I've only had to worry about blood trails a handful of times on deer. Usually DRT very or at least within sight. Usually the blood trail has been at least sufficient and I can only think of a couple times where I had much issue.

I usually aim right behind the shoulder, a little lower than the midpoint of the body.

Blizzard of '93 · Apr 15, 2018

it's been years back I went with a group of fellows that hunted bear with dogs, oft time going at night. 2 of the ol' timers had muzzlers, one a sxs 12 ga the other a .50 capper. others had modern cartridge guns - I carried my ROA loaded with max charge 3f and conical cast slug. never ran one to tree or bay, but heck of an experience dogs chasing around us.

Stumpkiller · Apr 16, 2018

If you need more than a round ball . . . shoot a bigger round ball.

The Eastern Elk was hunted to extinction before conicals. They came into "common" use among hunters right around and after the Civil War.

Ames · Apr 16, 2018

Last 3 of 4 years my 50 cal with 80 grains and a prb dropped them where they stood.

Loyalist Dave · Apr 16, 2018

FYI James Forsyth hunted Tiger and Rhino with patched round ball in the 1860's even though he could easily have used one of several types of conical projectiles, minie balls, whitworth shot, and others.

Now he preferred 8-bore (.85 caliber) and 4-bore (120 caliber ..., ok that's correctly 1.20) in rifles, so they were pretty large, patched round balls, but that's what he advocated using, AND at ranges of 100 yards or less.

LD

Vaino · Apr 17, 2018

Have hunted elk w/ a .50 cal. TC Hawken using 410 gr Buffalo Bullets and a .54 cal, custom Hawken using a PRB and both have killed elk.

The conical in the .50 TC Hawken was used because I don't think a .50 PRB is sufficient in all cases to kill an elk. The 410 gr conical performed well on elk w/ the following 2 factors that require caution. Have had the conical come off the powder charge in a clean bbl while hunting and the mid range trajectory of the 410 gr conical is excessive.....limiting the zero distance to 60 yds which to me is too short.

Went to the .54 PRB because of the drawbacks w/ the .50 conical and the last elk shot w/ a .535 RB w/ 120 grs 3f was hit at 107 paced off yds and ran 40 yds to me and collapsed. The rifle's zero was at 100 yds. I'm aware that a lesser amount of powder will kill an elk......I'm after a flatter trajectory.

Both the .50 conicals and .54 PRBs have killed elk w/o a whole lot of tracking, but the .54 PRB is more versatile.....and I don't have to keep checking if the conical stays on the powder.....Fred

BrownBear · Apr 17, 2018

Loyalist Dave said:
Now he preferred 8-bore (.85 caliber) and 4-bore (120 caliber ..., ok that's correctly 1.20) in rifles, so they were pretty large, patched round balls, but that's what he advocated using, AND at ranges of 100 yards or less.

As I recall he was using hard alloy balls in them as well.

dsayer · Apr 17, 2018

Loyalist Dave said:
Now he preferred 8-bore (.85 caliber) and 4-bore (120 caliber ..., ok that's correctly 1.20) in rifles, so they were pretty large, patched round balls, but that's what he advocated using, AND at ranges of 100 yards or less.

LD

Yeah I think that qualifies as pretty large... :shocked2:

dsayer · Apr 17, 2018

flehto said:
Have hunted elk w/ a .50 cal. TC Hawken using 410 gr Buffalo Bullets and a .54 cal, custom Hawken using a PRB and both have killed elk.

The conical in the .50 TC Hawken was used because I don't think a .50 PRB is sufficient in all cases to kill an elk. The 410 gr conical performed well on elk w/ the following 2 factors that require caution. Have had the conical come off the powder charge in a clean bbl while hunting and the mid range trajectory of the 410 gr conical is excessive.....limiting the zero distance to 60 yds which to me is too short.

Went to the .54 PRB because of the drawbacks w/ the .50 conical and the last elk shot w/ a .535 RB w/ 120 grs 3f was hit at 107 paced off yds and ran 40 yds to me and collapsed. The rifle's zero was at 100 yds. I'm aware that a lesser amount of powder will kill an elk......I'm after a flatter trajectory.

Both the .50 conicals and .54 PRBs have killed elk w/o a whole lot of tracking, but the .54 PRB is more versatile.....and I don't have to keep checking if the conical stays on the powder.....Fred

Thanks! 120gr of 3F must be quite a whallop...

Jimbo47 · Apr 17, 2018

[/quote]
Thanks! 120gr of 3F must be quite a whallop...
[/quote]

That's behind a PRB, and just think what it would be like behind a 410 grain conical! :surrender:

dsayer · Apr 17, 2018

Jimbo47 said:
Thanks! 120gr of 3F must be quite a whallop...

That's behind a PRB, and just think what it would be like behind a 410 grain conical! :surrender:

No thanks... :surrender:
I've been toying with 100gr of 2F with both 380gr REALs and 430gr Maxi Balls and that's plenty.

Jimbo47 · Apr 17, 2018

I tried 100 grains ONCE! :surrender:
85 grains is now my max. :haha:

Patched round balls or conicals for big game?

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