A Very Basic pouch

BrownBear said:

Brokennock said:

Thoughts?

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I keep coming back to your photos because I like your bag.

I can't find a single thing to criticize, but I want to plant a seed for future projects if you get into thinner leathers on straps.

The extra decorative stitching where you join the pieces is cool and I like it a lot. But if you ever get to thinner leathers, all those holes can create a weak spot where leather can tear with a lot of weight or when you stumble while the bag is hung up on a limb or brush.

Related, but not specific to muzzleloading, I made myself a very classy leather "messenger bag" style computer carrying case with too many holes where the strap joined the body, and the strap parted as I jogged through an airport. Pretty darned scary and no small part startling when your computer suddenly hits the concrete! Same for muzzleloading if you ever got to the far side of a brush patch and discovered you were no longer wearing your shooting bag! :shocked2:

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Thanks B.B. that you like it that much means a lot.

That leather is pretty thin, I'll check and get back to you on how thin. Not as thin as the bag leather, but thin. The curved stitching is virtually non-load bearing, the vertical single lines of stitch are doing the work.

If I go thinner on the strap, say as thin as what the bag is made of, won't I be back to sewing something like fabric to the back of it like on bag #1?

Thanks Gus. As usual, you come through with more good info and links than I can digest at one time, :haha:.

I really don't need another bag, have one for each gun, and only plan to get one more gun, then it will be a matter of getting rid of a couple I have now replacing them with more hc/pc replacements of the same thing, but, I like this one too so might have to make another just cuz. Maybe I'll make it with a buckle, we'll see.

If you do make another bag with a buckle, here is something you may not think about the first time you do it.

It is normally best that the buckle does not go on the side of the strap that faces forward when you wear it, as it can get in the way. Some folks like to sew a scabbard for a small knife on a pouch strap and that makes it even more important to do it this way.

So if one wears their shot pouch on their right side, then the buckle should go on the left side of the pouch as it lays flat and "right side" up, like this. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/imgPart/aam-533_1.jpg

If you wear your pouch on the left side of your body, then you want the buckle on the right side of the pouch, like this. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/imgPart/aaq-293-b_0.jpg

Note: I usually don't put a buckle quite as high on a strap as shown in these two links, as the buckle winds up against my back. What I normally do is find the length of strap I like and the buckle rides up the strap with a hole through the leather at the point the buckle tongue holds it there. The long part of the strap then goes through the buckle and down towards the pouch for longer adjustment will then have enough length to lower the pouch enough for wear with heavier clothing and still have the pouch ride in the same spot I like.

You are most welcome.

Gus

OOps, forgot something.

I prefer my powder horn slung on a separate strap, so the info about where to put the buckle above is for that way to carry a horn.

However, if you suspend your powder horn from smaller straps sewn to your pouch straps, then it is better for the buckle to be higher up on one strap, as shown in the links above. That way the powder horn will always be in the same place, no matter if you lengthen the strap or not.

Sorry, I sometimes forget some folks like to suspend their horn from straps sewn to the pouch strap.

Gus

You must have read part of my mind. Sorry about that.

I would prefer the buckle to my back to reduce hardware that can click and clack against other hard surfaces. And I sling my horn on a separate strap, haven't tried it attached to the bag, but seems it would be a pain to work with. I'd actually like to try getting my horn to ride below the bag, that way I'm not working around it to get in the bag, and I have plenty of slack to get the horn in front of me when measuring powder,,, but that's another discussion I guess.

Even though it has been over 4 decades since I made my first shot pouch with one or more buckles, that is something I remember trying to "think through" before I did it and had no one to guide me.

Actually the first pouch I made with buckles was one with fairly thick leather and two buckles on the strap, similar to FIW British Cartridge Pouches. I made it as a sort of "combination" shooting and reenacting pouch. Since it had two buckles, one on each side of the strap, I didn't have to worry about where they went.

However, on my very next shot pouch made of thinner and leather normally used on civilian Shot Pouches, I really had to figure that through on where to put the buckle.

Gus

Oh, another thing on buckles for 18th century pouches.

You may have noticed on the link of buckles from Spanish Shipwrecks that there was a very early "Roller" Buckle shown and all parts were made of a copper/brass alloy. (Actually, there have been Iron Roller Buckles excavated from Roman Ruins.)

There were also a very small number of roller buckles that were known to have been used by British Harness Makers/Saddlers.

However, most people do not know about the use of Roller Buckles in the 18th century and those buckles were VERY Uncommon to Downright Rare. So if you think of using a roller buckle on a shot pouch that early, you are going to get a lot of grief from people who don't know better.

In my case, I decided not to use roller buckles on anything earlier than Mexican War and later leather goods, because of this.

Gus

Brokennock said:

If I go thinner on the strap, say as thin as what the bag is made of, won't I be back to sewing something like fabric to the back of it like on bag #1?

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I don't have any historic precedent for it, but I've had good success using essentially the same "principle" behind sewing thinner leather elsewhere than straps. In other words, putting an extra layer in between the two strap pieces for cushioning, or whatever the explanation for why it works. But the basis of the technique is to put an extra piece of leather in there and trim it to the same shape as the top piece so you basically don't see it.

The biggest issue is the angle of your the pierces you make with your awl. They're not in a straight line following the line of your stitching. They're each offset at around a 45 degree angle so you get a thicker "gap" of leather between each hole. I can't draw for poot, but as I recall Al Stohlman has a great illustration of the pierce angles in his hand stitching book. Aha! Here ya go! Look close at the holes in the leather left by the chisel in the photo and you'll see zackly what I mean.

One other thing I do that helps is to stop my stitching back a little from the edge of the strap so there's a little extra "margin" of intact leather running down each side of the strap for extra strength.

BTW- I'm getting old and lazy. Any more, whenever the project allows I'm using chisels any time I drop down below 8 or 9 stitches per inch, just so I get those angles right on thin leather. I can do it by hand with the awl, but it requires eyes younger than mine and patience not frazzled by the modern world.

Thanks. I've been reading Stohlman's book.
I've also been using the chisel. I have a 6 hole, a 2 hole, and a single. The double and single are needed to get around curves, but I wish they were marked on top indicating the direction the diamond will point.

Brokennock said:

...but I wish they were marked on top indicating the direction the diamond will point.

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Great point! I've marked mine with a Sharpie, but of course it rubs off. Keep intending to borrow a friend's diamond engraver, but intentions are cheap. :wink:

Smiling Fox Forge has a lot of good period buckles too. Not sure if Najecki is doing business regularly these days

Great work on the bag!

Well I’m glad to hear your recommendation about buckle location Gus, because I screwed up the strap that I built for my double bag build that turned into a belt bag. My error was in putting the buckle on the back side (as worn), when I thought that I was assembling it on the front side.

Now I’ll just pretend that I meant to do it this way all along when I attach it to my next (currently making) bag.

Never having had an apprenticeship, or an easy access to a mentor to make period leather items for many years; I have made more than my share of mistakes over the years. :redface: :haha:

One time I was almost finished hand sewing one part of a two piece strap to a pouch and only then realized it was on the wrong side of piece of leather that formed the back of the pouch. I was extremely embarrassed because I had paid a lot of attention not to make that mistake. So I had to cut and pull the stitches and sew the strap piece on the correct side. At least no one ever saw me do it, though. :rotf:

Gus

I had sewn a bag up for a gentleman that our organization wanted to honor for his service. It was a very nice bag with an engraving on the flap and everything. I was about to hand it to him when I realized that I had sewn the strap on backwards. Luckily he was nice enough to not say anything and let me take the bag back and fix it.