lyman question

shdwlkr said:

Jim
Do you have any proof that they heat treated the ROA as I have heard that they did not.
As I said before if it is a bp firearm I will use only bp in it.
That Savage rifle was a mistake from the beginning Remington made a similar one and never said anything but bp should be used

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If you mean, do I have the Ruger blueprints for the Old Army cylinder the answer is no.

Several sources say that Ruger successfully tested the Old Army cylinder with loads of Bullseye powder under a roundball.

If the cylinder was made from any low carbon steel which is the material most reproductions use, Bullseye powder would have instantly blown the cylinder apart.

The only way the Ruger cylinder could have withstood the pressure spike and pressures smokeless powder creates when it ignites is for it to have been made from a heat treated alloy steel.

I say this as a design engineer who has spent his life designing things that require a through knowledge of materials and what they are (and are not) capable of.

Looking at it from another point of view, gun companies that make firearms which use smokeless powder must use alloy steel for their barrels, cylinders and other critical parts.

As a measure of safety, it would be exceedingly wise for them to only have materials on hand that will meet the requirements of those guns on hand in their material warehouse.

If they had some of the typical low carbon steel available, there is the possibility that some of it might find its way into the manufacturing process of a smokeless powder gun part without early detection.

The only way the low strength part could be detected is by the hardness inspection following heat treatment.

Because ALL Quality Assurance testing is done on a few random parts selected from a batch of parts that were all heat treated at the same time there is the possibility that these defective parts could easily slip thru the inspection process.

If they did, I'm sure Dirty Harry would not be amused when his .44 mag blew up taking part of his hand in the process.

Anyway, do I have documented proof? No.
Am I sure the Old Army cylinder is made from a heat treated high strength material? Yes.

Jim
I figured you could answer the question, one of the reasons I like this site is because it has bp individuals that can answer the tough questions without all the fluff some have.
thanks for answering my question, now to find a ROA in stainless and never look back

I will say just this morning I had a breech plug failure on my trade rifle. 90 grains of 2f, 535 rb. Only had it about a month,although I put maybe 150 rounds through it. i tried a 530 ball last time out and never could get it to group good so I'm guessing that may have had something to do with it. First shot of the day today, shoots high and splits in two right in the middle of the threads on the plug. Barrel key bent holding it in. Lyman has offered me a full refund or new rifle though. Believe I'll get one with two barrel keys next time though :grin:

That is scary!!!

We sure would like to see some pictures of the breech.

I'll have to give you a "First" place as your the only person I've ever heard of that had a failure of a Lyman breech plug when the shooter was using real black powder.

Please do take a few digital pictures of your barrel before you send the gun back to Lyman.

We would be very interested in seeing it.

+2 on the photo's.

Oh my, this is seriously scary. I'm following this thread with interest..

Well, I tried loading pictures but couldn't for some reason. Wasn't much to see. Didn't even realize it happened till after the shot. Only when I moved the gun off the bench to reload I noticed everything was jiggly Broke clean in two about 1/8 inside the bore. Sent the gun back to Lyman today and they're going to give me a full refund I suppose. Lyman seems to have good reputation as far I can tell, so I'm hoping it was just a fluke. Haven't decided yet what I want to replace it with,but it didn't scare me away from getting another one if I choose.

I have the same barrel that I am working with and the manual say's 120 grain max charge. Currently shooting Goex 2f at 100 grains.

Are you sure you had the ball clear down on the charge? I am going to have mine mag particle tested at work to see if there is any stress developing.

Walks with fire said:

Are you sure you had the ball clear down on the charge?

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That was my immediate question.

I suppose it could always be a possibility but I don't think so. i was actually trying out a slightly thicker patch and using my wooden ram rod to see how it would do in the field,so I was paying attention to see how it loaded. It was also the first shot of the day so I don't see how I would have double charged it or anything like that. I cleaned it when I got home and didn't detect anything like a bulge in the barrel or anything. It seems isolated to the breech. I'll let y'all know what Lyman says after they inspect it, even if it's something I did.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/15170...5@N05/25268414397/in/album-72157691452504311/
I am trying to post photo of another Lyman that came apart, not much luck.
I think if you click on link they maybe seen,I'am not good at this picture thing.
I never did get a whole story about this, so I am thinking operator error.

I thought that we might want to see your photos. The threaded breech broke off where it threads into the barrel. Was the breech over tightened during installation? Any evidence of a crack in the threads and escaping gas before the break occurred? What powder was used? What ball or conical?

A metallurgy lab would have to investigate the break and know everything done to the barrel before the break occurred.

Wow . . . I have a Lyman GPR left hand fainter in .50 that I bought used 7 years ago, used . . . guess from this thread that I am happy I have an older GPR.

I've had zero problems with mine.

Someone mentioned that their trigger went bad . . I think Davis makes a GPR replacements trigger that's supposed to be better . . . (Someone does, I think it's Davis.)

the triggers are a drop in fit, used them on a investarms 58 cal. hawken same co. makes lyman guns

The Davis are really nice. Mark

My oldest Investarms is a 35 year old percussion Cabelas Hawken and my others range from a dozen years old to 2 years old. All have nice wood. Fit & finish is better on the older rifles, but my newest, a .54 flint Trade rifle is well-fit with nice wood. Trigger was OK, but 1000% better with a replacement sear spring. Accuracy was good enough to merit installing a rear peep and front globe sight.

Yep; the lighter sear spring is the ticket on those coil spring locks. Quick, easy; and works like a charm.

Sgiles said:

Well, I tried loading pictures but couldn't for some reason. Wasn't much to see. Didn't even realize it happened till after the shot. Only when I moved the gun off the bench to reload I noticed everything was jiggly Broke clean in two about 1/8 inside the bore. Sent the gun back to Lyman today and they're going to give me a full refund I suppose. Lyman seems to have good reputation as far I can tell, so I'm hoping it was just a fluke. Haven't decided yet what I want to replace it with,but it didn't scare me away from getting another one if I choose.

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First off ,Welcome to the Forum .

Secondly I’m glad no one was hurt!

Did you buy this gun new or used?

Was the other end of the plug inside the barrel bottomed out against the shoulder of the barrel?

If it was a used gun and the plug wasn’t bottomed out against the barrel, it will allow fouling to be trapped around the plug.....

Over time it could eat away at the plug causing it too fail...

It would be nice to see a photo of the interior of the barrel and remaining plug. :hmm: