• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades
  • Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Suggestions and questions

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

CapPopper

40 Cal.
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
554
Reaction score
339
Looking at buying a new rifle soon and contemplating buying a small bore flintlock..... I was wondering if they were more expensive or a lot more work. I love working on and messing with guns so as long as its not a whole great lot of extra work im not worried about it. How long does a flint generally last? I'm not opposed to learning to Knapp flint especially if I can find it and make my own flint.. Is there anything I really need to know or any special considerations outside of real black powder being necessary? Its not available remotely local which is one reason I want a small bore so it goes farther. Are full stock rifles harder to clean than half stock? Anything else anyone can think of? And lastly im thinking ill have around 700 dollars to spend so what would be a good kit to start with?
 
A flint might die on the first shot, you might get 100 shots from out of one. Fifty is probably close to avarage.
I think a southren mountain is the best looking. A poor boy style would save you some of the hardest inlets, but a southren can be very fancy and very complex as you choose.
A pinned full stock rarely have its barrel removed, so you can’t drop the barrel in a bucket of water and pump it clean. However you can plug the touch hole and fill the bore with water and rinse it out. I don’t think it takes me more time to clean that way.
Flintlocks werebuilt in half stock but it was not really popular until after the precision era.
 
if your budget is in the $700 range, you may want to consider one of the less expensive GPR (Great Plains Rifle) designs, or a used Hawken- type Thompson Center. T/C no longer makes their "hawken type" rifles, or so i am given to understand, so you will have to find a used one. The GPR is made by Lyman, and is still in production. Some folks prefer the Lyman to the T/c because the Lyman has more drop at heel and is not a potential 'cheek slapper.' I haven't had any such problems with my T/C, but everyone has a different personal geometry so, if you go this route, see if you can fire one, or at least try each for their fit.

T/C made rifles with 13/16 (across the flat) barrels and also with one inch (across the flat) barrels. Mine are the one inch "renegade" and they're fifty and fifty four caliber. I have heard of .36 and .40 caliber barrels in the 13/16 size, but i've never actually seen one. Fifty is the most common.

As regards the cost of shooting, remember that there are 7000 grains to a pound. With a 35 grain target load, you'll get 200 shots to a pound of powder. (a pound of powder will set you back about twenty five bucks, if you don't buy in bulk ... thus, you will spend about 13 cents a shot for powder if you're running target loads) i can't remember what a box of 100 roundball costs, since i cast my own. figure a buck for a flint, and fifty shots, so add two cents for wear on the rock, and you're probably looking at 25 or 30 cents a shot.

if you shoot .40 caliber, you will probably run about 20 to 25 grain target loads, so you will shave a nickel off the powder cost, so there is some savings, but not what you'd get all excited about... remember also that you're going to be shooting about three shots a minute at the fastest. now you're looking at maybe sixty shots in three hours, and that assumes that you're shooting as fast as you can load, that you never go downrange to pull targets, that you never swab the crud out of your bore, and that you never stop to admire the other guy's rifle, have a cup of coffee, go to the restroom, or any of that stuff... and you are in incredible physical shape ... can you do seated curls with fifteen pounds for three straight hours? me either...

figure thirty shots will fill an afternoon nicely ... now the actual saving is under five bucks ... i like my .40 caliber because it looks cool, because i built it myself, because it's pretty accurate (at close range) and because it doesn't recoil at all ... it's a Southern Mountain Rifle.

i am, admittedly, a sucker for the SMR design ... there is something that appeals to the less-is-more user built aesthetic in me, but this is a personal preference, and i wouldn't think of trying to foist off my preferences on anyone else.

if you are good at building things, you might be able to get a kit and build your own ... i just looked up Track of the Wolf's "kit" ... it's about $820 ... here's a link: https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Cat.../SOUTHERN-MOUNTIAN-LONGRIFLE-FLINT-PARTS-LIST
a bit over your budget, but save up and there you go - but there are pitfalls: the first is that these are not kits so much as parts collections: this is most definitely NOT a tab- a- into- slot- b proposition ... you'll need a good book (i like The Gunsmith of Grenville County by Peter Alexander, as well as some tools, and next thing you know, you're in the low four figure range... another risk is that, if you hack up the project, you will convert eight hundred dollars worth of parts into a four hundred dollar gun ... depends on your skill, and how well you can lock into the learning curve.

sorry if i got a bit long- winded, and i hope this helps. go in with 'eyes open.' once you have fired the flintlock - well, there's a magic to it. to paraphrase the little green Star Wars guy, once rocks banged have you, forever will they dominate your range time.

good luck, and
Make Good Smoke!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My advice, save more money.
A GOOD flinter is a joy, a poor quality one, not so much. They can be most discouraging.
For around $1000, you can buy good quality kits, like Kiblers, Chambers, and get a good dependable rifle that will serve you the rest of your life.
Nothing is more frustrating than a rifle you have to nurse to get to go off.
 
I had a flintlock that was relatively inexpensive made by a guy that is known for that. I tried for years to make it go off somewhat shortly after I pulled the trigger. I never could get it to fire reliably. Now it might been me, but I dont think so.

I now have two very nice custom flintlocks. These things ever since the first shot ignite very fast.

I would save a few more dollars and buy a rifle from Jim Kibler. Put it together yourself and you will love that rifle.

fleener
 
45 cal is a nice blend of economy and knockdown power. If I had only one gun, it would be a 45. A local builder who easily does a dozen a year builds almost every gun in 45 for a good reason.

Even 50 cal isn't too bad.

If you cast your own and buy powder online in a decent quantity, even a 50 or 54 aren't bad to shoot.

Finding a 40 or smaller on a budget is tough.

A lyman GPR is a great gun. I am building and buying custom ones, but will always keep and shoot my lyman 54 cal flinter.
 
Knockdown power isn't an issue since I wasn't planning on deer hunting with it. I was mostly thinking coyote and smaller. Squirrels rabbits and stuff.... I can't really go over that on budget ill have more than that but it'll have to go to powder and other things.... No point in buying a gun if im going to have to turn around and spend 40 dollars for a pound of powder cause I won't have money to spend later on it.... If i have to go to the 1000 dollar limit to get a reliable lock im just going to get a percussion gun.... I was only willing to spend the 700 because I figured that should be enough not to get stuck with a lemon.... If that's the case ill buy a moderately priced percussion kit and spend the rest on my truck.... I was looking at the pedresoli kits on dixie gun works website

scout rifle

Kentucky rifle

Pennsylvania rifle

The Pennsylvania is a little pricy but is currently on sale and will hopefully stay that way... These are my thoughts if I really need to spend much more im just going to wait on getting a flintlock.
 
I just feel a 50 is a bit much for a squirrel rifle if someone can convince me otherwise I don't mind a 50 lol I like the versatility but was also hoping for something I could get more balls out of a pound for....
 
I think the Dixie Kentucky in .32 is perfect for you. I have not heard anything really bad about these Pedersoli Rifles.
These are pretty much in the white and just need careful assembly. There may be some minor wood work.....
These should go together well with sand paper and household tools.

Finish....black Rustoleum to fill the grain.....steel wool it off....then several thin coats of linseed oil....let dry between each thin coat.....you can thin with turpentine.....
Top off with Johnsons paste wax.
The barrel may come blued if not you could leave it white to age natural or color and rub back to grey with cold blue.

Ball.....buy a bag of the appropriate "buckshot" for savings.

The Kiblers, Chambers, and Track.....the kit or set is only part of the investment. Those require specialized tools to really do them right.....not a lot but a pretty good investment.
 
54 ball is right ... looking back on the tools that i have purchased (with the intent that they're to be used for building muzzle loaders) i probably have three to five hundred bucks on the bench. mind you, i admit to being a tool junkie. this includes some self made tools which i would figure at twenty bucks a piece- some more, many less... this includes the books are books, too ... Peter Alexanders' book is a bit spendy (although worth the price if you count the cost of parts you don't ruin after you read it)...

if, however, you save up and go with a Kibler kit (here's a link) https://www.jimkibler.net/southern-mountain-rifle-kit-overview.html
you won't have any real need for tools except the usual finishing stuff. Jim's rifles have an excellent reputation - i would have one myself but for lack of funds (i keep wasting my money on useless and silly stuff like groceries) ...

i'm pretty sure you can get one of these in .40 or .36 cal, which i believe will suit your needs.

good luck with your project
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I do think the track SMR is a good deal for what you want. A 7/8 or 13/16 barrel x 42 inch. Doing a poor boy you can leave off the butt plate, toe plate, nose cap and entry thimble, and single trigger. You get a good lock with this gun.
Nothing bad about pedi, and a GPR is a fine gun. However the track build represents a very HC in an easier build. The tools you need are few. A 1/4 chisel, a single hand rasp, some exato knifes and a set of bits and a drill, and sand paper.
Instruction
Books are great but good instructions come with the gun. For a plain build all the instructions you need are one you tube and his forum.
You build this sort of kit you get a one of a kind gun.
 
If I have the money ill look into the SMR no some background on me... In a machinist/gunsmith and have built more modern bolt action target guns than I can keep track of gun work is no big deal and im getting ready to bore a 50 cal barrel I have to 28 gauge and fit a new breech plug so it will fit on the hooked breech rifle I have now. I have chiseled stocks from solid walnut and so on... So the work and tools I know and have. I was looking for a fairly easy build though cause the one thing I don't have is time.... I do like the rustoleum tip however lol real black being hard to get and afford to order for me is the reason I was looking at a 32... Lots of balls in 5 pounds of lead and very light charges.. In not a read big fan of the super fancy guns and im iffy on patchboxes even... I think largely I don't like a lot of brass on a gun. Will be mostly for squirrels and rabbits and 38 cal is minimum for deer here so I didn't figure I wanted to go that big. I like the look of both the kits I linked to that don't have patchboxes. And since most of my squirrels are shot on the ground or low on trees I don't want to worry much about richochets. If the pedresolis have good locks then ill probably go that route
 
I have a wonderful .36 iron mounted SMR and value it highly. The barrel is .36 X 38" X 3/4". This little rifle is light and accurate and a joy to shoot. Flint life is just as good as any other flinter I own. 20 grains of 3F is accurate out to at least 80 yards; you only need to allow for drop. It's my most used rifle.

I load it with the same patching and lube as the larger bores fire. I never swab the bore during an afternoon of shooting and accuracy & seating remain unchanged. It cleans up the same as the bigger guns. I patch with either .019" to .020" mattress ticking or .022" cotton canvas duck. My hunting lube is TOW mink oil and Hoppes BP lube is used at the range.
 
For what it's worth, I would go for the Pedersoli Kentucky rifle. I own one and love it. I would suggest that you get a .45 cal so that you could use it for rabbit, squirrel, and even deer if you feel so inclined.

The one you posted is a good price. I bought mine off of a guy on GunBroker for $500 and it was shipped right to my front door.

Enjoy your search. I will warn you that flintlocks are addictive.
 
Isn't 45 still a bit much? 128 grain projectile is way more than necessary and with a 32 you get close to 800 balls in 5 pounds of lead that's nearly 3 times as many as a 45... I would like a 45 but I don't think I want to go that big right now... If I get a flintlock my main concern is powder economy since its harder to obtain than the subs... I considered maybe a 36 if I found one I really liked
 
A little .32 ball will do a lot of damage to a Squirrel. Head shots are best if possible. As you know a .45 ball will do more damage but if it's in the head no big deal. I think a .40 would work and not break the bank making your own balls. :)
 
.32 is plenty for small game, I find a .36 easier to handle. A .40 or.45 are not to much for small game, it can shoot real well with little powder charges.
 
I thought about a 40 but they seem hard to find... Economy in powder matters more too me than lead... Even if I have tho buy lead is24 dollars for 5 pounds and that's with 2 day shipping... And silky depending on what I get back on my taxes I may buy a cheaper percussion in a small bore and take you up on that ill have to see but I'm really wanting something cheaper to shoot than my 50
 
Back
Top