Armpit instead of Cow's Knee?

Hi guys... This will be my first year hunting with a muzzleloader. I've put in the time at the range and am able to hit an orange-size target at 100 yards with my new GPR, so I'm feeling pretty good about accuracy at the range. Historically I've been pretty reliable hunting with a modern rifle or pistol, so hey, I figure I have as good a chance as anyone, I suppose! Besides... it's the hunt that's the fun part, eh?

Nevertheless, as I think ahead, I'm worried about my flash-pan powder getting wet as it sits there in the real-world conditions of hunting. I can imagine several choice words coming out of my mouth if I pull the trigger and nothing goes "bang."

I've read mixed reviews about using a "cow's knee" to keep the power dry. Some say that they aren't really all that helpful, and I've read where guys are saying that they essentially use their arm pit to keep the powder dry.

Any opinions here guys?

If you're an "armpit" kinda hunter, how the heck do you actually sit or stand with your lock tucked up in your pit? Sounds like a weird contortion to me, but maybe I'm overthinking it? If you do this all the time and are handy with uploading a picture of you in such a position, by all means, do share!

Thanks guys!
As they say... keep your powder dry!

I use my arm but rarely my arm pit.

Just change the prime regular.

B.

TXFlynHog said:

I've read mixed reviews about using a "cow's knee" to keep the power dry. Some say that they aren't really all that helpful, and I've read where guys are saying that they essentially use their arm pit to keep the powder dry.

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The difference may have lots to do with terrain. If you're not moving around much or the terrain is mostly flat, your armpit might be okay. In my steep terrain and no stand hunting at all, your armpit is kept a little too busy to be idling around keeping your lock dry. :wink:

I misplaced my cow's knee (ancient car waxing real-leather chamois further treated with melted beeswax) and came up with a replacement after a frantic 60 second run through the basement.

I had just emptied the salt pellets into our water conditioner and the bag was still in the trash.

From up one side about 5" and across the bottom 14" I made a diagonal cut and turned it inside out. Wholah! A waterproof dark gray cow's knee (though it has a yellow liner. I ended up not needing it.

Found my "real" cows knee in the pocket of my orange vest . . . just before I headed out. :redface:


(Always put things back where they belong - in the shooting bag).

In the field - my primary method is to find a hemlock to sit under. Followed by a wool Mackinaw and a wide brimmed hat. And then a cow's knee if it is snowing or drizzling. My cow's knee has two long straps and the weight of them keeps it in place without being tied. When I move I wrap the straps around the stock and tuck the ends under the strap. Not good for snap shooting - but I move pretty slow and seldom bother at a running deer, anyway.

I don't hunt that much when it's raining but certainly have many times. I have used a baggie over the lock but prefer to just drape the tail of my coat over the lock. When moving I keep it under my arm.

I do both. My cow's knee works great, when used with care. I keep a small tin of my patch lube mixed thick, think chapstick consistency, in my shooting pouch for various reasons. When hunting in wet weather I wipe the pan and frizzen with an alchohol swab, dry it with a clean dry flannel patch and prime with my usual 3f, close the frizzen and smear the edges with the bee's wax/olive oil lube to seal, then I smear another glob of it where the barrel and wood meet just forward of the lock to try to keep moisture from flowing back towards the lock. Although I do try hard to keep my muzzle angled down at all times in wet weather. I also put some right where the from edge of the cow's knee wraps around the barrel and I wrap it tight when I put the knee in place. I try to keep the lock tucked up under my arm when moving and under clothing as much as I can, blanket wrapped over shoulders and gun while sitting, or, lately I've been wearing a wool poncho like the ones from Fred Asbell here, https://asbellwool.com/products/poncho-evening-stand-green very good for keeping gun, horn, and shooting bag dry.

This helps a lot. Oh, did I mention keeping your muzzle oriented down. This is mostly to keep water from running down the outside of the barrel and into the lock. Remember too, when considering a cover for your lock, while your prime must remain dry, your frizzen and flint need to do the same.

Here is where it seems my practice differs from most. If I successfully primed the lock, and sealed the edges of the pan dry, I DON'T OPEN IT AND "CHECK" THE PRIME, unless it stops raining and I can regain dry working conditions. To my thinking, if dry prime went into a clean dry pan, was then sealed and kept covered, every time I open the pan I'm inviting moisture in. When I first started messing with flintlocks in the rain, I followed all the advise about sealing the pan and keeping the lock covered,,, and checking the prime,,, and the prime was always dry, and the gun always fired when needed. Since I stopped checking, it still fires when needed and the prime is always dry at the end of the day if I didn't shoot.
This changes some once the gun is fired and reloaded under wet conditions, the fouling in the pan will now invite moisture. Clean the pan well, alchohol prep wipes are great, and now maybe check it once in a while.

Thanks guys... I appreciate your sage advice and experience.

I hadn't thought about "sealing the pan" with any sort of wax. As I am using pre-lubed patches, the only lubes that I currently own is bore butter, which I use after cleaning the barrel.

What sort of wax can I get for sealing the pan? Would chapstick work?

Can't see why a scent free chapstick wouldn't work. Sometimes Wal-Mart and/or CVS bas the little round tins of a product called "Tattoo Goo", it is of the right consistency and should work very well being primarily a blend of plant oils and beeswax, and is really good for your skin. In cooler conditions straight up coconut oil should work as it remains solid and way at most outdoor temperatures this time of year. It will liquify from body heat though so wipe it on quick and be done with it.

I don't seal the pan with wax. Waxes make oils when heated. Oil on a frizzen means no sparks.

I'd rather have a rusty frizzen than a nice shiney oiled one.

Do what you have to do to make sure the heel of the frizzen is absolutely flat on the pan and water won't be a problem. Capillary action will keep any water that does get that far around the rim and not down in the powder.

'afternoon,

If you look at Civil War manuals, there's a position typically called "secure arms". It inverts the weapon, so the ramrod is on top and the lock is in your left armpit. It's designed to keep the lock dry.

I don't know how useful it would be for hunting, at least where any sort of movement is required. It's not the most comfortable hold or easiest to move through brush, etc.

Mike

I have always used a cows knee. My wife says I'm a natural furnace, so taking the cold lock and placing it under the arm pit could warm it up and could cause condensation on the steel. The only time I put it under my pit is in a downpour and at that point there are lots of risks of wet powder.

So that's my longwinded way of saying Cows Knee. They are easy to make and weigh next to nothing.
:2

Cow's armpit will work on cannon :rotf:

And then there is the poor farmer who couldn't afford a whole cows knee so he had to do with using a cows elbow instead. :grin:

Even with a Cow's-knee, you need to do your part. Keep the barrel pointed down when carrying in the rain as moisture is known to get in the barrel channel and wick its way between the lock and barrel and into the pan (I had this happen to me).

I went one step further and filled my barrel channel and the rear of the lock inlet with beeswax toiletbowl gasket wax - it is soft & sticky and easily spread on the bottom of the barrel. When the coated barrel is pushed into the channel, any excess squeezes out and can be removed. I haven't removed the barrel from this rifle in nearly 10 years, but it is a pinned barrel. I also haven't had any moisture wick into my prime either...

I use a cow's knee....very dependable. Problem's arise when a shot is taken in wet or damp weather and the pan isn't cleaned. BP residue absorbs moisture and I've had a "soupy mess" in the pan if it's not cleaned after firing....even w/ a cow's knee.

Waxing might work but is more work than using a cow's knee. If not waxed completely, the rain can run down the bbl and wet the prime. Also... w/ repeated shots, the wax build up could become troublesome if not cleaned off.

For some reason squirrels like to be about when it's raining...especially in a light drizzle and my cow's knee is just tied in the front and is quickly put to the side for a shot......Fred

I need to do more research, but from my damp prime, fail to fire episode this deer season I was conversing with some guy's on another flintlock forum and most have decided that in moist weather 4F priming powder soaks up more moisture (not treated with graphite) than 3F or 2F. Might just want to prime with larger grain on wet days along with a cows knee and protecting with your armpit. In my opinion. those who rely on only the armpit protection, are not outdoors very often.

walks with gun said:

...in moist weather 4F priming powder soaks up more moisture (not treated with graphite) than 3F or 2F. Might just want to prime with larger grain....

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That sure lines up with my own experiences. I'm not good enough to note that ignition is any slower when using the same powder as my main charge for prime. But I certainly do notice the issues with 4f even in high humidity without drops falling from the sky. Using the bigger granulation still isn't an excuse to get sloppy about rain protection, but at least it will fire off more reliably than 4f, even when you do your job and keep them dry.

Try the same powder you're using for your main charge. If you're simple minded like me, you just might like it! :grin:

BrownBear said:

That sure lines up with my own experiences.

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Different strokes for different folks. My experience doesn't line up with yours. I always use 4F prime and have never had a problem with failure to fire simply from humidity, no matter how high.

Spence

Me, neither.

Yup. Differnt strokes for differnt folks. But right on the ocean with an average of 90" of rain a year and a hot summer day being 70 degrees, humidity might be a little different for me than for you.