pan priming

I'm not new to Muzzleloading but am new to flinters.
I'm getting a "long" delay between the flint hitting the hammer and the main charge going off.

Will too muck powder in the pan cause a delay/ long burn time before the charge goes off?
Thanks !!

Jay

It seems to me it varies from gun to gun, but over filling the pan if I remember right could slow it a bit, how is the flash hole located, Are you using a vent liner. There are plenty of variables you can google. Does your rifle have a patented breech is it completely clean if it does. Is your breach face clean. We might need clear pics and what type of gun your using.

Its a taditions Kentucky rifle kit i built.

Yes, it has a stainless steel liner in the flash hole.

I get great sparks off the flint.

I am using 3 f black powder for everything.

The delay seems to be not quite a full second.

the answer to your question is yes,

usually.


In the best of all worlds, your touch hole will be in the "sunset position," that is, just level with the upper edge of the pan, so if you drew a line on the barrel from the front to the back of the pan, the hole would be right on it, or very slightly above - think six o'clock hold. Ideally, the hole would be evenly centered between the front and back edge of the pan.

we do not, to the best of my knowledge and belief, live in the best of worlds. your touch hole may be in the 'sunset position,' or it might not. this doesn't mean that your gun is no good- far from it- your hole may be out of position and the gun might still function perfectly well.

what i would recommend that you do is to tinker with your loading set up. i had been told for years to fill up the pan or the gun would never shoot - it was only until i was encouraged to try something different that i came to realise how quickly a flintlock can fire. in this light, i encourage you to do the same. start by filling the pan so that the level of the powder is well below the touch hole, then increase or decrease the amount of primer used, and try banking the prime away from the hole, and toward the hole, or level in the pan. it should go without saying, but only change one variable at a time, and take careful notes of what you're doing so that you can repeat success and not do a do-over on failed tests. eventually, you will come upon a depth and orientation of powder which works best for that particular gun.

here's the bad news: you will have found a depth and orientation which works best for that particular gun. the next gun will most probably want to be primed in an altogether different configuration.

part of the charm of flintlocks (to my mind) is their feisty and individualistic natures. the upside is that once you get it working well, the success is all the sweeter.

to maximise the potential accuracy of your rifle, i would recommend Dutch Schoultz' method. If you do what he says, your groups will shrink. His work is the best non- shooting accessory i have ever purchased. Here's a link:
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/


good luck with your project!

Make Good Smoke

When you load the gun, do a couple of flecks of 3f get into the pan.

If not consider opening the flash hole to 1/16th of an inch.

I agree with fools sulfur. I drill all my vent liners with a 1/16" bit and have had no problems with ignition. I also check the liner prior to shooting and open the inside cone a little if I think it needs it. Too much prime might slow ignition or it may not. At the range I use 1/3 to 1/2 pan full; but in the woods I just dump some in and continue.

Try banking the powder near the flash hole and then away from it on the far side of the pan leaving a little air space under the vent hole.See which way works better.
Also,try loading with a soft wire pick of Flash hole diameter in place, then pull it after loading and prime the pan as suggested. I think things will speed up for you.

I also had slow ignition. Switched from a nearly full pan to only 3.5 grains of 4fg, presto, nearly instant ignition. Go figure. This worked on all three of my flinters.

Yes. Too much prime can slow things down quite a bit. Since I started plugging my flash hole while loading the only ignition issues I have are when I overfill the pan. I think I'm barely using 2 grains of 3f when I get my best ignition. Try less prime and this; (copied from another recent response of mine)
I made a "pick" from a 3" piece of coat hanger wire. Tapered it over a long enough taper that when the thickness equals the flash hole diameter, it stops the tip just so very slightly short of the opposite barrel wall. Since I started plugging the flash hole every time I load the gun, not pulling the wire until I prime the pan, I've gotten no misfires/panflash without ignition.

I agree with the "yes" answers.

The plasma/heat travels faster than even 4F powder burns. Keep the prime below the level of the vent hole.

Ideally, the granulations of the main charge should be visible through the touch hole because what ignites it is actually the incandescent flare of the primer ignition which is generally best provided by a flare away from directly below the touch hole. I too have found a touch hole approx. 1/16 inch and only about 3 grains of FFFg work well and consistently.

WOW !! Thanks for all the help guys. I knew the great folks on this forum would have tips.

thanks!!!

Jay

Do an archive search for some of Pletch's posts. He has explored this subject thoroughly, (touch hole placement, powder amount and configuration) and backed it up with high speed cameras.

Basically, what he concluded was that the best amount of powder is a full pan right up to, but not covering the touch hole. Touch hole location wasn't terribly critical, as long as it wasn't extraordinarilly goofy. A highly polished pan and frizzen shoe base can help reflect some of the heat to the touch hole too.

Larger touch holes will light the main charge more reliably, but they are also a source of gas to exit. Remember, when the main charge is igniting, gas comes out the vent hole first, and the ball is only sent on its' way when the breech pressure can no longer all be vented out the touch hole. That's why people advocate using the smallest touch hole you can use that will provide reliable ignition. For most, they've found that 1/16" is a good number to work around, though my guns are drilled to .058" on one gun, and .060" on another.

That also creates a bit of a dilemma. A very tightly patched ball is going to take more force to get it going down the bore, which means more gas is going to escape through the touch hole before the pressure builds enough to send it down bore, thus lengthening barrel dwell time somewhat. Longer barrel dwell time hurts accuracy, particularly in unstable positions, like standing position. But a tightly patched ball is going to obdurate better, and engage the rifling better, which in theory would give you better intrinsic accuracy. That's what makes flintlocks (and their operators) so individual in what works best for each combination of them.

About 3 grains of powder is what I prime everything with; the exception is my smoothbore with a very large Colonial Va lock. The pan is three times larger than, say, a large Siler. In that gun I usually double the amount of prime.

At a range it's not difficult to have the prime stay where one wants it. In the bush with the gun being moved around, one never knows where the prime is banked. And if you're like me when you shoot a deer, the prime is just mostly dumped in. For me, it's easy to spill some; I'm always shaking like a Soiled Dove at a baptism.

I here ya,

I missed a small buck last weekend in the Wisconsin deer season 'cause of a long burn time and me getting worked up a little.

And.... (more excuses) my little pop up tent blind fild with white smoke so fast i could'nt see the flipping deer. lol

The learning curve starts over every day at my house.

Good answer! The pick left in place while loading makes and leaves a clear channel through the center of the powder charge so the jet of plasma from the pan does not have to fuse burn through the flash hole.
I think it negates the need for interior coning of the liner.
I still think exterior coning would be of some help as it funnels the pan flash.
I don't care for interior coning for the same reason as I want the main charge to be restricted from blowing outward through the flash hole.

My first LR is used for squirrels and has a home made TH liner that enables this flintlock to function perfectly w/ varying amounts of priming w/o concern for its location in the pan. My primer throws varying amounts of 3f or 4f....sometimes too much and my finger removes the excess so the frizzen can close completely and at some other times, hardly enough prime, but ignition always happens if there's any sparks at all.....and have never carried a TH pick.

One would think that when flintlocks were in general use, the above reliability was a common thing....afterall, flintlock rifles were at times a "survival tool"

When aiming at a squirrel's head and firing, I don't notice any variation in ignition time caused by varying amounts of prime and its location in the pan...although there well might be some varying ignition times. But that's just the fun of shooting a flintlock which does require good concentration.....Fred

Thanks fred but your comment on " good concentration" Is so true , BUT i am thinking about it every shot and need to eliminate that problem i have created.
Thanks for the help!!
Jay

jaybird14 said:

I'm not new to Muzzleloading but am new to flinters.
I'm getting a "long" delay between the flint hitting the hammer and the main charge going off.

Will too muck powder in the pan cause a delay/ long burn time before the charge goes off?
Thanks !!

Jay

Click to expand...

I certainly don't have all of the answers but let me share what I have found in solving any flintlock ignition delays. First make sure that your touch hole is at least 1/16 inch in diameter. You can use a 1/16 drill bit to check this. I have also found that coning the touch hole helps ignition times. You can cone your touch hole with a 1/4 inch drill bit held in your fingers. Place the drill bit in the touch hole and twirl it with your fingers to form the cone. Never use an electric drill to do this as you will likely over do it and ruin your touch hole liner. This cone will help direct the flame into the touch hole. Once your touch hole is the proper diameter, you can look at how you are filling your pan. I have found that I get the best ignition if I put about 5 grains of powder in my pan. I make sure that it is leveled out in the pan and against the barrel but not covering the touch hole. Never cover the touch hole as that will usually result in delayed ignitions. When you put your main charge down the bore, lean your rifle over toward the lock side and give the barrel a few raps with the heel of your hand to settle the powder in the powder chamber. Try these couple of suggestions and see if your ignition time improves. :thumbsup:

Thanks!!