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First off just got back from shooting my T/C Hawken .54 cal. Since this was my first time shooting a muzzleloader I loaded it up with 60 grains of 3f,.530 ball,.10 lubed patch. Had to hammer the ball starter with a rubber mallet to start it. Then rubber mallet the ram rod to seat the round. :shocked2: Is it supposed to be that tight? After that I backed it down to a .05 patch I could start it by hand. At 50 yds I clover leafed with the following load. 65 grains of 3f,.05 patch,.530 ball...Is this a sufficient hunting load for white tail deer?
 
Are you saying that your patch thickness was 0.050"? Fifty-thousandths of an inch? Good grief!! :shocked2: What are you using for patches??
 
something is wrong. are you lubing patches. that combo should slide down the barrel.
 
Several questions here. 1) 65 grains of 3 f is plenty for deer. I think the TC was bored to use a .530 ball, but checking a site like track of the wolf or jedidiah star or log cabin sport shop you will find .525,.526,.527, .530,.535. Different guns work with different ball well. I liked a .526 in my .54s.
I have never seen.05 patching, most shooters shoot .1-.2 I would bet.15 is most common. Your lube may be a factor or your ball might be oversized. In the end if your getting good accuracy from your load that's what you need.
Buy several ball of different sizes several different patches and spen a present day at the range, starting with loads from 50- 90 grains to see what works best.
I've enjoyed a lot of venison that thought 60-70 grains of powder was more then enough.
 
Agreed! I use a .530 ball and a .017 patch, it's a tight fit but I can pop it in by hand with a short starter.
 
If that patch thickness is working, be happy. :)

Most of us find that Thompson Center Hawkens like very tight patch/ball combinations. Especially if the powder load is heavy, say 80 grains and up.

As for loading and ramming the patched ball, yes, with the round spherical "starter" ball against the top of the ball, it takes a whack on the "starter" to get the load to start in the muzzle.

I rotate the starter to get a very short dowel that is installed in it to push the patched ball maybe 1/4" down into the barrel.
Rotating the starter so a 2 1/2"-3" length dowel sticking out is pushing against the patched ball, another hard push is needed to get the ball down against the muzzle.

After the patched ball is down this far, it has deformed and the patch has compressed enough so pushing it the rest of the way down to the powder load is relatively easy using just the ramrod. Maybe it takes 3-5 pounds of force.

Speaking of ramrods, take a good hard look at the one that came with your rifle.

If the wood grain looks like that in this sketch, beware!

9619407050_ae79850c20_q.jpg


The "breakout" of the grain indicates it is traveling at an angle to the rod and it can shear along that grain.
If it does it will produce a razor sharp edge that can easily go thru your hand.

There are metal or good hickory ramrods available that have been made by splitting the wood.
These won't shear off like ramrods with grain runout.
 
Honestly?
If you have to "hammer down" a .010 patch with the combo you say,, there's a problem.
And/or if you can "clover leaf" 50yrd groups with the combo you say,,
, you have a rifle that is worthy of taking hunting for any game you choose.
A very unique situation,,
Good Luck, :wink: :thumbsup:
 
necchi said:
Honestly?
If you have to "hammer down" a .010 patch with the combo you say,, there's a problem.
And/or if you can "clover leaf" 50yrd groups with the combo you say,,
, you have a rifle that is worthy of taking hunting for any game you choose.
A very unique situation,,
Good Luck, :wink: :thumbsup:
If you're getting clover leaf groups, it's a keeper. Your load will certainly down any Bambi you'll ever come across. It's accuracy, not powder and you've got that covered! :thumbsup:
 
Most of us find that Thompson Center Hawkens like very tight patch/ball combinations.

My experience with TC not-really-a-hawken Hawkens, is with early production models. ca. 1970s. Those bores varied considerably, gun to gun. The story/theory was that the boring and rifling buttons at the TC factory wore down with use. New tools, bigger bores, older tools, smaller bores. My barrel had very shallow rifling and required very thin patching. Ticking was WAY too thick with balls over .430". My point is, gneralized statements are not a a one size fits all solution.
 
You shouldn't have to use a hammer to send the ball down, normally I'd say use a thinner patch, but .05 is plenty thin. So if that continues to happen you might need a smaller RB. Too much lube on a patch also makes for hard loading.

The cloverleafs are excellent; most cant shoot that well...so the barrel has plenty of potential.

As for the charge; let me tell you what happened to my best friend. I SAW this, not heard it on the web, or from my cousin's best friends wife neighbor's boss saw it.
He has a TC 54 cal Hawken, doesn't shoot it much. He bought some factory RB's and some ffg. He loaded 60grs and it shoot very tight groups at 50yds. He said good enough, lets hunt.

3rd week of season, morning hunt, a nice, not monster, but nice buck steps out, about 50 yards off, broadside. Bob using a rest plants the RB low behind the shoulder. The buck takes off, leaves a fair blood trail. He reloads and calls me, I show up in a few minutes.

We follow the trail to the neighbor's fence, cross it and keep trailing. The buck skirts a large wheat field and enters some timber. I'm getting worried, but still have blood. We go over 500 yards, (verified by gps) and find the buck, dead. I think Bob muffed the shot, but no, right where the heart should be. The buck has a perfect 54 cal hole going in, and a 54 cal hole going out.

Take the buck to camp, hang it up, dress it. We find a perfect 54 cal hole through the heart; like you had drilled it using a bit.

Lots of time on the porch spent trying to piece this together...here's my thoughts:
Two things make an animal (or human for that matter) collapse; shock and loss of blood pressure/oxygen, (not counting nervous system wounds). 60grs ffg in a 28" bbl is approx. 1250 fps., with 762 ft/lbs energy. I'm wondering if the slow speed kept the RB from upsetting more, causing it to punch a hole in and out, with less tissue damage, and less trauma/shock delivered to the deer.

Did the buck die? Absolutely. How fast? Probably about 30-45 seconds. The issue is the distance traveled; had it been an evening hunt we might not have found him.

Bob hasn't hunted with the Hawken since, but says he wants to experiment with 80-90 grs of ffg. I think that's a good idea.

Just something to think about.
-+
 
never had a tracking job with PRB. Shot a cow once with a 30-30 at 50 yds through the heart. Death lurch (I knew I heart shot her) so went to truck for ropes n such came back and she got and ran....2nd shot in rear hip dropped her. PERFECT whole in heart. Lived at leat 15 min (I drank a cup o Joe at the truck :grin: ). Not sure what went "wrong". Meat was good. Sometimes I guess they just run (or in her case bed down asap). :idunno:
 
Maybe they are like all animals..some deer take more killing than others. I know the biggest buck I've shot I used a 35 Remington with 200 gr RN. At 60 yards I double lung shot him, he stumbled and turned towards me. I shot again at 20 yards, point of the shoulder. Only deer I've ever shot more than once.
 
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