Flintlock converted Long Fowler

Enclosed is a image of 1760-70 flintlock to percussion conversion long fowler .This gun was used on the English marshes and foreshore mostly to provide food for the table but also sell any birds at the local market these would have consisted of whooper swans geese waders and also starlings, the money they made provided for the home and also for powder shot and wadding.
The gun converted to percussion using a percussion breech , it has a 59 inch iron barrel with the London proof marks and a bore size of 9 a large flintlock converted lock plate with brass furniture , although still in shooting condition it will never be out shooting geese because of the lead ban on wildfowl , To use steel would ruining the barrel and bismuth is far too expensive after all the gun is part of our heritage and must be preserved
Feltwad
A Long Fowler

Left Side

Oooohhhhhh ... Mongo like!

VERY nice, love the long-garreled fowlers.

Very cool ... i like also. Got to admit ive given a passing thought on just such a conversion.

She is a great historical specimen

Is there a more detailed photo of the lock area...looks interesting. If it ever come to live at my house, it'd get converted back and used whatever the cost...what a beauty! :thumbsup:

Wes/Tex said:

Is there a more detailed photo of the lock area...looks interesting. If it ever come to live at my house, it'd get converted back and used whatever the cost...what a beauty! :thumbsup:

Click to expand...

Enclosed has requested are the images of the lock and lock area . The lock plate is 7.1/2 inches long the hammer has a throw of 2.1/2 inches.
This is a good piece of history of the period , has most members know I am against reconverting back to flintlock. it is part of the guns heritage and should be left alone.
Feltwad






upload gif online

...but you can shot steel using the plastic cup from a modern cartridge.

I think it won`t harm the bore and you will be able to use it.

Sasquash said:

...but you can shot steel using the plastic cup from a modern cartridge.

I think it won`t harm the bore and you will be able to use it.

Click to expand...

Experience has showing me that black powder and plastic wads do not mix if not cleaned properly you end up with a melted film of plastic on the bore which in turn causes barrel ripple and ruining's the bore .If it is allowed to get too bad it is then becomes a obstruction which can result in a bulge or worse still a busted barrel, I have seen too many guns end this way
Feltwad

I know it's not H.C., however. I use plastic wads with great success in 12 ga. loads for competition. This is the only time I use Pyrodex. Much less plastic fouling and easy clean up using newspaper and Windex with vinegar. I can shoot an entire match ( 20 to 30 rounds ) without the need to clean the bores.

Yes, it is quite common for people to find that Pyrodex does not cause a buildup of fouling in the bore.

Many times, I've shot my caplock rifles for hours without needing to wipe the bore to facilitate loading.

I think what Feltwad was primarily concerned with is the melted plastic residue left in the bore after shooting loads with plastic wads.

I haven't shot plastic wads in my guns but I believe the temperatures inside the barrel when shooting black powder or a BP substitute vs shooting smokeless powder wouldn't be very different.
Hundreds of millions of rounds of plastic wad shotshells have been fired and I don't recall hearing about any horrendous plastic fouling in those guns.

I suppose the slower burn time for black powder might expose the plastic wad to the heat for a bit longer time and that might cause a bit more melting.

For what it's worth, I seriously doubt that enough plastic buildup could ever cause a burst barrel.

Hell, a choked shotgun barrel can be as much as .030-.045 under the bore diameter and its location at the muzzle makes it an ideal candidate for causing a burst barrel because it is an obstruction.

Ain't no way plastic from shooting plastic wads could build up a .015 per surface (.030 diameter reduction) layer in a bore and even if it did, the buildup would be fairly uniform along the length of the barrel.

Snap!

I have the same gun :rotf:

Feltwad said:

Sasquash said:

...but you can shot steel using the plastic cup from a modern cartridge.

I think it won`t harm the bore and you will be able to use it.

Click to expand...

Experience has showing me that black powder and plastic wads do not mix if not cleaned properly you end up with a melted film of plastic on the bore which in turn causes barrel ripple and ruining's the bore .If it is allowed to get too bad it is then becomes a obstruction which can result in a bulge or worse still a busted barrel, I have seen too many guns end this way
Feltwad

Click to expand...

That's why one puts a fire wall between the plastic and the powder
I love it when folk stop at the first hurdle :hatsoff:

B.

Britsmoothy said:

Feltwad said:

Sasquash said:

...but you can shot steel using the plastic cup from a modern cartridge.

I think it won`t harm the bore and you will be able to use it.

Click to expand...

Experience has showing me that black powder and plastic wads do not mix if not cleaned properly you end up with a melted film of plastic on the bore which in turn causes barrel ripple and ruining's the bore .If it is allowed to get too bad it is then becomes a obstruction which can result in a bulge or worse still a busted barrel, I have seen too many guns end this way
Feltwad

Click to expand...

That's why one puts a fire wall between the plastic and the powder
I love it when folk stop at the first hurdle :hatsoff:

B.

Click to expand...

I think that what has been quoted is for modern repro steel barrels .The gun in this thread has a iron barrel and what I said reveres to this and also Damascus barrels .I have seen many guns in the last two decades ruined by plastic wads using black powder which is the main cause of barrel ripple,
Feltwad

Very nice. Thanks for sharing.
Stock architecture looks more like last quarter 18thc. Who is the maker?

Feltwad said:

Britsmoothy said:

Feltwad said:

Sasquash said:

...but you can shot steel using the plastic cup from a modern cartridge.

I think it won`t harm the bore and you will be able to use it.

Click to expand...

Experience has showing me that black powder and plastic wads do not mix if not cleaned properly you end up with a melted film of plastic on the bore which in turn causes barrel ripple and ruining's the bore .If it is allowed to get too bad it is then becomes a obstruction which can result in a bulge or worse still a busted barrel, I have seen too many guns end this way
Feltwad

Click to expand...

That's why one puts a fire wall between the plastic and the powder
I love it when folk stop at the first hurdle :hatsoff:

B.

Click to expand...

I think that what has been quoted is for modern repro steel barrels .The gun in this thread has a iron barrel and what I said reveres to this and also Damascus barrels .I have seen many guns in the last two decades ruined by plastic wads using black powder which is the main cause of barrel ripple,
Feltwad

Click to expand...

No one has ever been able to explain the dynamics of this or refer me to tests that prove this is a dangerous practice.

Using a plastic shot cup minus any unessential part on top of a traditional wadding material has not been so far proven a dangerous practice.

B.

Britsmoothy said:

Feltwad said:

Britsmoothy said:

Feltwad said:

Sasquash said:

...but you can shot steel using the plastic cup from a modern cartridge.

I think it won`t harm the bore and you will be able to use it.

Click to expand...

Experience has showing me that black powder and plastic wads do not mix if not cleaned properly you end up with a melted film of plastic on the bore which in turn causes barrel ripple and ruining's the bore .If it is allowed to get too bad it is then becomes a obstruction which can result in a bulge or worse still a busted barrel, I have seen too many guns end this way
Feltwad

Click to expand...

That's why one puts a fire wall between the plastic and the powder
I love it when folk stop at the first hurdle :hatsoff:

B.

Click to expand...

I think that what has been quoted is for modern repro steel barrels .The gun in this thread has a iron barrel and what I said reveres to this and also Damascus barrels .I have seen many guns in the last two decades ruined by plastic wads using black powder which is the main cause of barrel ripple,
Feltwad

Click to expand...

No one has ever been able to explain the dynamics of this or refer me to tests that prove this is a dangerous practice.

Using a plastic shot cup minus any unessential part on top of a traditional wadding material has not been so far proven a dangerous practice.

B.

Click to expand...

Only quoting from experience Concerning plastic wads and black powder with old Damascus and iron barrels 68 years to be precise.
Feltwad

Feltwad said:

Britsmoothy said:

Feltwad said:

Britsmoothy said:

Feltwad said:

Sasquash said:

...but you can shot steel using the plastic cup from a modern cartridge.

I think it won`t harm the bore and you will be able to use it.

Click to expand...

Experience has showing me that black powder and plastic wads do not mix if not cleaned properly you end up with a melted film of plastic on the bore which in turn causes barrel ripple and ruining's the bore .If it is allowed to get too bad it is then becomes a obstruction which can result in a bulge or worse still a busted barrel, I have seen too many guns end this way
Feltwad

Click to expand...

That's why one puts a fire wall between the plastic and the powder
I love it when folk stop at the first hurdle :hatsoff:

B.

Click to expand...

I think that what has been quoted is for modern repro steel barrels .The gun in this thread has a iron barrel and what I said reveres to this and also Damascus barrels .I have seen many guns in the last two decades ruined by plastic wads using black powder which is the main cause of barrel ripple,
Feltwad

Click to expand...

No one has ever been able to explain the dynamics of this or refer me to tests that prove this is a dangerous practice.

Using a plastic shot cup minus any unessential part on top of a traditional wadding material has not been so far proven a dangerous practice.

B.

Click to expand...

Only quoting from experience Concerning plastic wads and black powder with old Damascus and iron barrels 68 years to be precise.
Feltwad

Click to expand...

So are you saying you have repeatedly destroyed barrels via plastic wads for 68year?
Do you have any actual proof?

Or could simply be hear say third hand stories about some individual/s that did not load a gun correctly and simply blamed the wad?

68 years or 6.8years, where is the proof or tests?

B.

I have not entered this thread on the long fowler to argue with you I know what I am talking about .Has I said I have seen many guns ruined by using plastic wads causing barrel ripple .I have worked , collected and built muzzle loading weapons for yes 68 years not 6.8 years which is long before you were born so lets talk about what the thread was about a long fowler and not to something else .
Feltwad

As a third party, I'll speculate that what's meant is that using plastic wads in an old barrel that isn't smooth deposits a lot of plastic residue that has to be heavily and meticulously cleaned to remove. Plastic can be difficult, at best, to get out of modern fairly smooth bores and a real booger-bear to get out of old rough ones. It has to be all scrubbed out or more corrosion can build up under it. I refuse to use it at all now.

Feltwad said:

I have not entered this thread on the long fowler to argue with you I know what I am talking about .Has I said I have seen many guns ruined by using plastic wads causing barrel ripple .I have worked , collected and built muzzle loading weapons for yes 68 years not 6.8 years which is long before you were born so lets talk about what the thread was about a long fowler and not to something else .
Feltwad

Click to expand...

I fear you are misunderstanding Feltwad.
I have simply asked for proof and asked with out predjudice with all your experience for documentation to substantiate your own comments made earlier in this thread.

If you wish to take that as you say "arguing" then that is your choice, but for the record I only wanted to be satisfied that what you are saying to be substantiated.

B.

If you did want to still hunt with it, you could use Nice Shot, which is almost as soft as lead, and far softer than steel.