1851 Navy not working right

So I recently replaced the hand in my 1851 navy (pietta) and now it binds up on 2 of the chambers and wont allow me to cock it.
Anyone run into this before? any idea what is causing this thing to bind up?

Those two teeth on the ratchet star need to be adjusted and probably the hand nose needs to be shortened a bit and dressed.
You don't really want to do this unless trained or you'll be buying a new cylinder too.
When correct you can drag your thumb on the cylinder while slow cocking and the hand will bring the cylinder up until the bolt drops into the notch.
The hammer should move a bit farther back after the bolt drops but should not bind.
The ratchet star is often shaped with a fine Barret file and then dressed with a stone but there are several angles to deal with and it is easy to screw up.
Take it to a pistol smith or a good home gun mechanic who has done the job successfully before.

Ditto on what M.D. said however you didn't fully explain what is happening, is the bolt popping into its notch but then you can't keep drawing the hammer back to full cock?

crockett said:

Ditto on what M.D. said however you didn't fully explain what is happening, is the bolt popping into its notch but then you can't keep drawing the hammer back to full cock?

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Sorry, thought i had explained it.
on two of the chambers the hammer will not cock.
The other 4 allow the hammer to cock and rotate the cylinder normally, but on these 2 it just binds up and does not allow the hammer to move back more than a 1/16" or so.

Sounds like you need to remove a small amount from the top of the hand so it can slip under the 240 degree tooth and pick it up. May only be a very few thousandths since it picks up the other four teeth when they are in that position.

The hand is cheap, probably better to try that rather than the ratchet. I had one gun and I marked the chambers. One chamber would jam and I noticed there was a bur on the tooth so I stoned that area VERY carefully and only a little at a time and it worked- but if you screw up the ratchet- big problem.
The bolt should pop into the cut/notch- that locks the cylinder, any further backward movement on the hammer just stresses things. Ideally the bolt should lock and then just a hair farther back to cock the hammer. I had one revolver that if you went very slowly would cock BEFORE the bolt locked- normally the shooter just pulls the hammer back as far as possible so this is never realized.

I agree completely, about the only time you should get near the ratchet with a cutting tool is if there is an obvious burr.

That is the reason for the thumb drag test in revolver work so that inertia will not finish the cock stroke. It won't any way once you get some fouling going.
If it cocks four of the chambers but jams up on two than the hand length is not the real issue.
It's stubbing on the ratchet teeth.
Remember ratchet teeth are all filed and fit to the hand at the factory so often need adjusting when you get them, sorry to say.
Also, I always smooth the hand window when I tune a revolver as the casting will often leave them quite rough on the interior.
The hand length is adjusted to the final hammer travel after it positively lifts the cylinder to the bolt drop.
Bolt drop is another matter entirely.
I like it to drop before the lead in cut personally as it helps to brakes the cylinder inertia of the bolt slamming into the back side of the notch.
Yeah it leaves a drag line but that line will not be a gall if the bolt nose is dressed properly.
n Knunhausen (Hand gun smith) actually writes in his manual that Ruger revolvers are supposed to drop the bolt about half way between the notches.

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. The ratchet star is machined at the factory in an indexing jig. that for a six shot revolver, each tooth is 60 degrees from its neighbor. The ratchet is not fit to the hand just the reverse. The hand is first fit so that it reliably picks up each tooth at the 240 degree position. The hand is then final tuned for carry up.
The OP stated the only thing he had done to this revolver was replace the hand. Therefor if it had worked in the past and only the hand was replaced it is likely that the hand length needs adjusted.

Often, a replacement hand is made with extra material on its tip.

The hand almost always needs to have a little material filed off of it so that it will work with the ratchet teeth on the cylinder.

The fact that the hammer refuses to be moved much more than 1/16" when the hand is trying to engage the ratchet on a few chambers indicates that the new hand is trying to engage a new ratchet tooth but because it is too long, it is hitting the front of the ratchet rather than dropping down into the next tooth.

As several have said, it usually only takes a very little amount of material being removed to solve the problem.

The hand by the way is not hardened so a metal cutting file will rapidly cut away the end surface.
With this in mind, work slowly, removing just a little at a time. Then, try the hand by partially reassembling it with the hammer and gun.

If it works, you've done a good job.
If it doesn't, remove it and file just a little bit more. Then try it again.

If the ratchet teeth were all the same then the hand would not work on four and trip on two. This should have been corrected at the factory when fitted. It cycled a couple of times at the factory and the fitter thought "good enough" and passed it on down the assembly line.
It may need shortening but not before the teeth are cleaned up on the two it doesn't work on.
Once that is accomplished then the length can be checked and adjusted to the final hammer travel.

I ran out of time during my post so will continue my thoughts here.
If you just shorten the hand without correcting the teeth than the hand will always be stressing and wearing more on the two that are tall.
The idea is to make all parts function uniformly without stress spikes for smoothness and longevity.
Another point I have found from filing and fitting both is that hands are not much, if any, softer than ratchet stars as both will file readily.
I fit a new hand to a Ruger Redhawk once that was harder than Chinese Arithmetic. :rotf:
The reproduction revolvers can be all over the place for hand and trigger hardness.
The reason a hand nose usually wears faster is because it partially revolves around a tooth in the lift and may be a bit softer. The contact point with the tooth slides across the width of the hand nose as the ratchet star subscribes it's circular movement from contact through lift.

Dennis, I didn't mean that the teeth were formed by file just that they are adjusted by file and stone if necessary.
Same deal with gang reamed chambers that are often different diameters at the mouth in the same cylinder.

You do realize that as little as .001 of material could cause the jam. The ratchet teeth are within tolerance but not perfect. I'm with Zonie just remove a little material from the hand untill it will pick up all six teeth.

It just seems to me like a perfect opportunity to adjust the teeth into more consistency to each other.
The new hands extra size reveals an inconsistency that should be addressed for a better overall tune up in my mind.
It could very well be just a couple of burrs that need smoothed off. I've found those before on the top flat of the teeth and is usually the first thing I remove.

DennisA said:

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. The ratchet star is machined at the factory in an indexing jig. that for a six shot revolver, each tooth is 60 degrees from its neighbor. The ratchet is not fit to the hand just the reverse. The hand is first fit so that it reliably picks up each tooth at the 240 degree position. The hand is then final tuned for carry up.
The OP stated the only thing he had done to this revolver was replace the hand. Therefor if it had worked in the past and only the hand was replaced it is likely that the hand length needs adjusted.

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Correct, the only thing different is the had, this gun ran like a champ with the old hand. The only reason I replaced the old had is that the spring broke.

I think i only paid 5 bucks or so for the hand, I think I'll start off by taking a hair off it and see if that improves things.

Also, since it was mentioned, there are no obvious burs or defects on the ratchet.

Zonie said:

Often, a replacement hand is made with extra material on its tip.

The hand almost always needs to have a little material filed off of it so that it will work with the ratchet teeth on the cylinder.

The fact that the hammer refuses to be moved much more than 1/16" when the hand is trying to engage the ratchet on a few chambers indicates that the new hand is trying to engage a new ratchet tooth but because it is too long, it is hitting the front of the ratchet rather than dropping down into the next tooth.

As several have said, it usually only takes a very little amount of material being removed to solve the problem.

The hand by the way is not hardened so a metal cutting file will rapidly cut away the end surface.
With this in mind, work slowly, removing just a little at a time. Then, try the hand by partially reassembling it with the hammer and gun.

If it works, you've done a good job.
If it doesn't, remove it and file just a little bit more. Then try it again.

Click to expand...

This makes sense, thanks.
I'll break out the files

M.D. said:

If the ratchet teeth were all the same then the hand would not work on four and trip on two. This should have been corrected at the factory when fitted. It cycled a couple of times at the factory and the fitter thought "good enough" and passed it on down the assembly line.
It may need shortening but not before the teeth are cleaned up on the two it doesn't work on.
Once that is accomplished then the length can be checked and adjusted to the final hammer travel.

Click to expand...

No, it ran like a champ with the old hand. I've gone though 2 and a half or so cans of pryodex p (i know, i know pyrodex is :td:, i've switched to the real thing now that i have a flintlock) in this thing without a issue.
Thanks for the advice, i think i'll start by taking a bit off the hand. If that does the trick then great. If it doesnt, i'll go from there.

That is the right course of action if your doing the work yourself. Hands are relatively cheap to replace.
As I said way back at the beginning filing a ratchet tooth incorrectly will cause big trouble.
I was relating some other techniques and possibilities used by pistol smiths for tuning revolvers.

Do you still have the original hand. If so, is there any noticeable difference between the two? I don't have one in front of me right now, so I am not sure how the spring is attached. If it is possible, replace the spring on the original with the new one. Anyhow, since the new hand was not very expensive, I would order another one just in case you over trim the new one.