Remington 1858 powder measures

They used gain twist in the originals. I have no clue as to what that works out to though. It would make sense that it was slow(er) for sure as it begins with none and only has a short distance to get a twist. What does it end at?

Accuracy is one thing I've never seen spoken of with originals. Just the effects on men and animals, and I figure the only reason it seemed more effective on animals is that it penetrated better, especially at a longer distance.

The "Army" revolvers were issued with paper cartridges topped with a 215-grain conical bullet by the War Department, which ordered said cartridges by the millions.

I believe it was the 60 Colt that had the gain twist originally instead of the 58 Rem but could be wrong.
Paper cartridges sure made sense in battle as opposed to loose powder and ball.
Elmer Keith wrote that some of the Civil war cavalry vets he spoke with as a kid said they always preferred balls to the bullets then issued for killing power and accuracy.

M.D. said:

Elmer Keith wrote that some of the Civil war cavalry vets he spoke with as a kid said they always preferred balls to the bullets then issued for killing power and accuracy.

Click to expand...

M.D. - accuracy tests on conicals in our modern cap and ball revolvers was done years ago.

The pointy conicals of the civil war era slipped through man and game whereas the Kaido Conicals, which are improved versions of Elmer Keith's lugnuts, punch big holes through man and game.

The men who regularly hunt hogs here in Florida with black powder sixguns and Kaido Conicals prefer the conicals for shooting in thick brush and at distances over 25 yards compared with the venerable round ball.

My understanding about Kaido and his group of hog hunters is that they all prefer a Kaido conical to a ball except for the fellow with the Walker who loads 66 grns of 2F T7 with a ball claiming the wound is more viscious within 25 yds. After which the conical does a better job.

It's been some time since I kept up with either Yahoo BP group, but at that time there was just the 240 and 255 grn versions in .44. Has any of his lighter conicals been proven yet?

Getting an Ideal #452389 to size down for Piettas. My standard practice is small diameter rear to fit into the chamber and large front ring to swage on the mouth.
Has the right length, has a neat little round top to fit the ram. Has a nice shoulder to cut clean holes in the paper. Might be just about right.
We'll see if she works.

Elmers old 250 grain bullet is all I have ever used in my .44 mags and they still are a top choice even against a slightly better LBT line up.
He said pretty much the same thing as you about the civil war era bullets and was the reason balls worked better then.

Those bullets of Kaido's look very interesting. I had not heard of them until this thread, but saw Mike B.'s Youtube on them. Impressive.

They certainly perform well. Can't say I've heard anyone complain...

Sure, I'm tacking my references shooting with different loads to see which measure/balance I feel best.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out what is used by others.

As you know, manuals are suggesting a ridiculous load (15 grains max...), and most shooter I see around me (in France) are shooting below 20 grains (we are shooting at paper targets as using a revolver to hunt is strictly forbiden in our country).

Personnaly, I did start at 20 grains: recoil is smooth, and grouping is mostly ok (if not, that's mostly my fault), but I feel like my impact are not that clean. I'm so increasing slightly to see how it's improving.

But doing so I am interested in other countries usages - and in particuliar US where it seems most shooters are loading bigger.

Looking at the typical match shooters their charges generally seem to run between 12 and 25 grns of powder with most using 3F but some with 2F.

I have mine for hunting, and so I demand more performance than that, which calls for both a more energetic powder, and a little bit heavier charge. However energy doesn't trump accuracy so I started at 25 grns and went up to 35 finding 30 was more accurate. But I'm also using an adjustable rifle measure with 10 grn increments. 5 is easy enough to figure but I haven't tried anything else. It could well be there is a better charge, but then my groups aren't that bad for my uses (I'm no competition shooter) with my Remington giving me about 3.5-4" groups with an occasional flier adding another inch at 15 yds offhand. It's not great but it's doable. I'd come in last at a match shoot with that though...

1 inch equals 25.4 mm.

12 grains! for a 36 or a 44? Sounds like really few for a 44 - never did try - I will next time just to see how it feels...

For a .44.

Most seem to run between 15 and 20 though.

I've been a bit curious how much a reduced charge would tighten things up. But then such a reduced load wouldn't be practical for anything other than punching paper, and I'd prefer to practice with what is use.

I see. And agree for the training to what is used.

I'll have a try on such a light charge just to see. I wonder how the impact would be. Last time I did use 20 grains, my impact on paper were not that clean. I had to go for 25 grains to have nice round holes... perhaps my small tube (5.5" barrel).... who knows...

First time posting here. Mine is dead accurate with 20 grains volume pyrodex rs. However, 40 of pyrodex p, gets me 4" groups at 25 yds. Just think that's 75 feet. Good for a revolver. I use round ball.

All depends on what you need. Mines a farm gun. At that load, Will slam a hole like nothing else. Wierd too. It's a SS palmetto. Those are supposed to be junk. Locks tight, cylinder's line perfect. Shines like a Colt Python. Beat the hell out of it. It's my go to. Can't seem to overload it. Fits about 45 grain max compressed.

Just remember though, just because it's a handgun, doesn't mean you have to use fff or pistol type powders.

LEM, after much testing with several different .44 pistols. I now just shoot 30 grains behind either a ball or a bullet. From a rest my 5 1/2 inch Pietta New Army revolvers will shoot 1 1/2 inch groups at 50 feet with either ball of bullet. Recently I have been shooting the Pyrodex 30 grain pellets for revolvers and that is all I am using for CAS matches. With a prelubed bullet and one of those pellets loading between relays is a dream.

I'm in France, and we don't have access to Pyrodex here - but as far as I can read, 20 grains of Pyrodex approximatively equals 26 grains of French BP (or Switzerland BP) - that's close to what I'm using (25 grains of Switzerland BP #2).

rodwha said:

For a .44.

Most seem to run between 15 and 20 though.

Click to expand...

15-20 grains of Pyrodex?