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Paper Cartridges

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USMA65

40 Cal.
Joined
Dec 25, 2011
Messages
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After watching several YouTube videos about paper cartridges, I decided to give it a try. I bought cigarette paper, a .38 cal loading box and 3m Scotch stick glue. I even went to a ladies salon supply store to get Sally Jumbo End Wraps. I told the lady behind the counter that I was going for the Bruno Mars look. Now my hair at 73 still looks like it did in the Army. You should have seen her look when I told her about cap and ball paper cartridges! Anyway, I made six cartridges with 20 grains of 3F powder. For a dowel I used large tip from my powder flask, not the best, but it worked fairly well. Now my Uberti .36 Navy has been flawless since I added SlixShot nipples. Yesterday, it was different. The gun jammed on about every shot. Caps were more distorted than normal. Paper fragments were flying everywhere and the gun seemed to have a larger than normal recoil. Cleaning was an experience too. There was unburnt paper in most cylinders. But the gun did seem to have less fouling than normal. So, I am debating the whole effort. Should I keep trying.......or really go for the Uptown Funk look? :wink:
Seriously, are my experiences typical of paper cartridge ?
 
Ive personally never tried it, and from the sound of it I probably wont.Heck, loadings half the fun :grin: I have an old DXGW catalog that describes how to make nitrated papers.You might give those a try.Sounds like they would eliminate the excess paper problem and likely, improve ignition.
 
When you say the gun jammed, what do you mean? The cylinder would not rotate?
The Army used charges of 15-17 grains. The 20 gr might be a little too much.
The Dixie Gun Works catalog showed how to make paper cartridges and in the photo there is a ton of crunched up paper at the base. NOT GOOD. You need to make a cardboard/heavy paper template. The shape should be an isosceles trapezoid, that is a four sides shape with the top and bottom parallel and the top longer in length than the bottom and the two sides "isosceles" in the respect of both sides being of the same length and angle. On the base, you then add a tab in a round or square shape.
Use the template to draw this on a cigarette paper. The gum on the cigarette paper in on the TOP.
Place the cut out paper over the mandrel and over lap the sides and use the glue stick. This overlap should only be about 1/8". Now put some glue on the tab edges and fold over the bottom to seal it. This completes the case.
Pour in 16 grains of fffg and then insert the conical. Wet the paper around the conical and this will activate the glue (gummed edge- which in on the case INSIDE) and carefully set aside to dry- the gum edge holds the bullet.
This whole thing is a lot of work and should only be done to "bond" with the past.
Cigarette paper is NOT the same as used on originals. The originals burnt up better so check the chambers for unburnt- smoldering paper before loading another round.
 
I used American Spirits papers made of flax and didn't cut it into any shape. Mine left little shards of paper in several chambers but never caused any issues even after I left them to see if the would.

I enjoyed making them and can see their benefit, but also enjoy loading loose powder at the range.
 
Try this. Go to a local magic store and buy some Flash Paper. It's probably what you need.
 
So I am going to go from Bruno Mars to a dad gum Houdini. :hmm:
Flash paper....I'll try it, thanks
 
I've been making paper cartridges for several months now and enjoy both making them and shooting them.
I have only had problems in the beginning when I used to twist the ends. Some wouldn't shoot and some caused the nipples to plug solid with paper. After switching to using one inch by one inch squares on the bottom the problem went away and I've not had any misfires.
I have been using cigarette papers to make my cartridges and do get some unburnt paper in the chambers. For me it's no big deal I just blow into the chamber and it comes out.
I would like to hear from someone who has tried the flash paper, that sounds like a possible winner.
 
Gene, I use flash paper cartridges, and prefer them. They can be made from heavier weight paper which is easier to work with when forming them and results in a stronger cartridge. The main benefit though with flash paper cartridges is that they never leave any residue in the chamber, even though constructed from paper four times the weight of cigarette paper, curling papers, or tea bags.
H&C Collections sells a flash paper made specifically for cartridges. It's expensive, has to be shipped wet, and requires a special adhesive also sold by H&C. I've only run into one person Online who uses it, and he swears by the product.
Magician's flash paper also has its advocates. It's less expensive than the H&C product and burns away reliably, though the only person I found who described it's mechanical properties said that it was rather light weight and flimsy.
If you're up for some serious risk and a bit of experimentation you can manufacture your own paper. There are plenty of sites online that explain how to nitrate cellulose using potassium nitrate and concentrated sulfuric acid.
The easiest solution though is to stick with a strong light weight inexpensive paper like hair curling paper, form your cartridge from as little paper as possible, and use a combustible adhesive like Duco cement thinned with acetone.
 
Go on YouTube and find "Cap & Ball" YouTube site. He shows how to make real nice paper pistol cartridges. He also sells the old style pistol cartridge boxes.
 
There is another aspect that I suppose ought to be considered on some of the paper treatments- that is whether they are corrosive. You might want to give the revolver a good cleaning after their use.
 
Thanks Wisket, I looked at some magicians paper but haven't made up my mind to try it yet. I did see some videos on you tube how to make but decided against it, my wife would have a fit, probably think I was making meth.

I ordered some curling papers, think I'll give them a try, I got a thousand for about five bucks. I've been using cig papers but they don't burn up that well.
 
Gene...Contrary to popular belief, cigarette papers aren't treated with potassium nitrate to make them burn better, that makes no sense in terms of their intended function. They are more likely to be treated with a fire retardant to keep them from burning away and dropping glowing embers into the smoker's lap. The curling papers you've purchased are a better choice.
In making cartridges, once the cartridge is formed, I let it extend slightly below the forming mandrel after it's glued, and flatten a small flange onto the base, somewhat like the crimp on a shotgun shell. I give the flange a touch of glue, and press on a disk of cartridge paper the same diameter as the base of the cartridge, that keeps the paper to a minimum.

Crocket...Part of the manufacturing process in making flash paper is thoroughly neutralizing the product, residual acid degrades nitrocellulose and makes it unstable. The usual procedure is a cold water wash, soaking in sodium bicarbonate solution, another water wash, and finally treatment with 5% urea. The end product isn't any more corrosive than single base propellant, which is what nitrocellulose is. So-called corrosion is generally caused by water-attracting salts left behind by chlorate based primers and powders. The oxygen in the chlorate is consumed upon firing and leaves potassium chloride behind, the chloride absorbs atmospheric water vapor and causes rust. A good example of the process is the behavior of FH42 primer, employed by the U.S. Government back around WW I. I use it to make caps, and it promptly rusts any ferrous metal its combustion products come in contact with. Cleaning with water readily removes it, but putting off cleaning for a couple of days will result in rusting.
 
W- thanks, I know the original ammunition was corrosive but the army didn't care but I never thought about what we use today.
 
Crockett, I agree, I don't think the Army worried too much about corrosion during the Civil War,as far as I can tell they devoted most of their attention to waterproof pistol cartridges with limited fouling. They performed penetration tests, but I'm not persuaded that they actually applied particularly rigorous standards to the powder charge. Though quite a bit's been written about cartridges during the Civil War, I often wonder how much impact political corruption had on the process. I doubt Samuel Colt was the only manufacturer handing out gifts to people in the procurement chain.
Civil War primers were mercury fulminate based, I think tempered with potassium nitrate, and probably weren't anything near as corrosive as FH42 primers. The Army abandoned mercury fulminate when they found that it cracked brass cartridge cases, which prevented reloading them, and switched to potassium chlorate.
Reading through the patents, I notice that some manufacturers of Civil War cartridges added potassium chlorate to collodion treated cartridges to improve combustion. Such cartridges must have been quite corrosive, but I've yet to find any mention that the Army noticed a problem with them.
 
Wicket if your not a chemist or college professor you should be, that's a compliment by the way. It sounds like your a well of knowledge and I greatly appreciate your input and time on this subject.
Hope you have a great weekend.
 
Gene, I only got as far as struggling through junior year chemistry in high school when the math defeated me, I was mostly interested in stuff that went bang anyway, so my heart wasn't broken.
Cap shortages and the shipping restrictions on powder inclined me to become ammo independent so I combined the basic stuff I knew with what I could find Online and discovered that it added a new and enjoyable dimension to blackpowder shooting, sorta like some folks get into CAS or Reenacting by way of shooting.
I appreciate your kind words and am glad you found the information of interest.
 

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