TVM Fowler & .590 round ball

Hello all,
It has been a while since I have posted, but have been lurking for quite some time. I have finally placed an order for my smooth bore...20ga, dark coffee colored, antiqued steel, and 42" barrel! Matt says it should be ready late spring and I can hardly wait. I asked him to check the bore and he said it measured .608.

So, I am in the process of gathering accessories. I figured a .590 round ball and .018 patch to be a good start...problem is...I can't seem to find any round balls in that size. Checked the obvious places. Is this not a common size for pre-made round balls? I am not set up to cast my own and all my current shooting is done with the .54 cal. Any suggestions? I'd appreciate it. When it comes in I'll post plenty of pics. This will also be my first flintlock as well, so the summer will be filled with learning experiences. Thanks!

As I did you might get in touch with Jeff Tanner in the UK. He cuts good custom molds, charges relatively little $$ and he is quick to get your mold to you. My TVM .62 smoothbore has a tight bore as yours does. I either shoot WW ball cast with a .600 Lee mold (actual dia .606" using WW) without patching (bare ball) or load .590" ball patched with a lubed .018" or .024" home cut patch. When I ordered the mold from Jeff I received it inside a week.

Yeah, get you your gun and a bag of balls of different sizes. Track or pecotonitic ect sell small batch of ball. Try different loads and combos. You may find several loads that you like best, .590 is small, and you may find a patch not your best load.

Thanks hanshi. Just curious...is there any difference in your gun's accuracy between bare ball and patched rb that you can tell? This is gonna be a close distance deer gun (20-30 yds) til I can work out better accuracy at longer distances (60-75 yds) which I figure may take some time. Coming from a traditional archery back ground, I like to get close.

Good tip tenngun, thanks. Didn't realize I could get a test pack of rbs of different sizes. I'm gonna have my work cut out for me this summer. I'm trying to refrain from the "Hey guys, what's the best load for my smoothbore?" question. But, am looking for a good starting point. Seems like the test pack may be the way to go.

One thing you need to check if ya ain't already.

My TVM fowler came with a "straight" (i.e. untapered) barrel. This gives an effect not unlike what a bull barrel might be like on a shotgun and adds considerable weight as well as giving clumsy lines. Every historical fowler known has a tapered barrel.

TVM does not state this clearly going in. Please verify the nature of the barrel.

Also the fit of the barrel and lock on mine were/are particularly poor, but this is likely because I ordered a different lock than standard.

These things I did not realize until I started hanging around experienced shooters (at Friendship in particular).

Anyhoo..... my own fowler gives good results with 80gr FFFg, a .600 ball and pre-lubed 0.010 patches.

This is a 50 yard group, supported offhand (against a post), you should expect this sort of accuracy, and for your fowler to be a 60 or 70 yard deer gun....



And click to watch me and my fowler plugging a little javelina at 35 maybe 40 yards right where I needed to...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuFKhFvdOt0

...same load.

Birdwatcher

My "20 ga.", a .62" cal. really also measures .608". Puzzling but the 36" barrel only measures 31" so I guess it is understandable. Sorta.
Enney, back to topic. I was not able to find a .590" mould or a supplier of balls in that size. I bought a Jeff Tanner mould. It took quite a bit of work to get ridges and rough spots out and off of it before it would allow cast balls to drop out. Now, it does cast me .590" balls. I'm not in the bizzness of selling cast balls but can send you some cast from zinc. I thought it was hard lead but turned out not to be. Quite a bit lighter in weight than lead. PM me, we will work it out.

I have a TVM smooth rifle. I'm getting my best groups with no patch. Maybe try a couple of the thin "over shot" cards on top of the powder then a lubed soft wad such as felt or tow/sisal/jute. Seat the ball on that then use another thin card or two to hold it in place. You should be able to use the more readily available .595 balls this way.

I use .590 ball in my .620 bores. I use a paper cartridge to snug it up in a consistent manner. I had to get a custom made mold for the ball though. :wink:

LD

I have a .590" mold made by Rapine, who is no longer in business.

I have always wondered why no one else produces this size domestically. I have learned to prefer this size in a .62 because I like a thick patch which holds more lube.

There was a post on a cast bullet website two or three years ago from someone who deals with the Lee company on a regular basis that mentioned Lee will do a special run of almost any reasonable ball diameter or elongated bullet diameter and profile if the customer will order at least 10 molds.
You might do this by keeping one or two for yourself, and selling the rest. The extras should not be difficult to sell and recoup your investment.

I wanna thank everyone for their responses. The combinations seem to be limitless. I'm not set up for now to cast my own rbs...that will come in time. I am really surprised by the number of folks who tell me that their accuracy is quite good with just a bare ball. So, when my smoothie comes in I will have quite a few combos to try. I better add a notebook to my list of accessories... :hmm:

Birdwatcher,
Thanks for the load info and video. That fowler seemed to be the ticket for that hog... :thumbsup:
I always thought a thicker patch was the way to go, but you seem to be doing just fine with a .010 patch. And yes, TVM was quite clear about the barrel on their fowler being straight...This is gonna be a deer, turkey, and squirrel gun. I don't need the lighter barrel for swing-ability and upland shooting. My ignorance level is still quite high when it comes to these fowlers... :redface: and I truly wouldn't know if I was missing something unless I was able to compare it against a truly refined fowling piece... :surrender: Why would I want to do that to myself? :wink:

When I first fired RB's from my Fusil, I thought a PRB is the easiest & most accurate way to go. Accuracy was marginal, & I began trying fiber wads & TOW. Ends up that loading it same as for shot works best, with an overpowder wad, 1/2 of a 1/2" fiber wad (or TOW), then either paper wrapped, or bare ball followed by the other piece of fiber wad or more TOW.

I'm still debating on whether the paper wrapped ball is any better than bare ball - need to try more.

I use a 1:5 Castor oil : Denatured alcohol lube for both wads & TOW, letting the DA evaporate before use. The OP wad keeps the TOW from smouldering downrange.

Mud_Slide_Slim said:

Thanks hanshi. Just curious...is there any difference in your gun's accuracy between bare ball and patched rb that you can tell? This is gonna be a close distance deer gun (20-30 yds) til I can work out better accuracy at longer distances (60-75 yds) which I figure may take some time. Coming from a traditional archery back ground, I like to get close.

Click to expand...

One of the smallest groups I've fired with a prb was with .600" lead balls and .010" lubed patches. Eight shots went into 2.5" at 50 yards (two flyers took it out to around 4" +). I also killed a deer with this same load and, IIRC, 60 or 70 grains of 3F. But the prb was too tight to worry with in the field. The bore is a tight 20ga. Using a .606" WW "bare" ball all shots usually stay inside a dessert plate at 50+ yards. So far I haven't seen a consistent advantage of either 2F or 3F. The .590" prb did very well, also.

Birdwatcher: My TVM (named "ol' loudmouf has an untapered barrel like yours. Yet it is still a quick moving, handy gun. The barrel is 38" which may make a difference. I ordered a Chambers Colonial Va lock and a rear sight on mine. I didn't care for a tapered barrel as I use mine for deer, turkey and squirrels. I don't hunt upland birds or wing shoot. It turned out to be exactly what I wanted for my purposes. Fit and finish on mine are near perfect and the trigger is light and crisp.

A friend has a similar gun (his inspired me to get one, too) but with a .42" tube and a Siler lock. His is a bit more "trim" than mine and with a nose cap & rear sight. The trigger on his is not as light as the one on mine but his gun doesn't weight any more than mine. It's his favorite gun and he seldom hunts with a rifle.

smoothshooter said:

I have a .590" mold made by Rapine, who is no longer in business.

I have always wondered why no one else produces this size domestically.

Click to expand...

Are you not familiar with these?

Larry Callahan's bag molds.

I have looked at his molds at Dixon's and CLA. He has .595 and .600 molds in stock and can make anything that you want for a $20 set-up fee. Pretty reasonable and the molds seemed pretty good. Very similar to Rapine. I just did not need one at the time. I do not use the cutters on these type of molds - made my own side cutter.

However, I have his bag pliers for doing period leather-work demos and also have one of his flint multi-tools. Both serve very well. He is a good guy and you would like his products.

CS

I knew they were out there, and may get one sometime.
But I like the more modern molds like Lee and Lyman because they are faster and easier to use when casting large quantities of bullets. And the handles don't get hot.

All true. I do the same, except that I keep a few primitive molds for demo purposes.

CS