fur moccasins?

It has always seemed a no-brainer that the old boys would have made moccasins of furs, hair inside, for cold weather, but I've found very few references to them. Daniel Trabue "made socks to go over our shews with Buffelo skins puting the wool inside" on the Kentucky frontier in 1778-9, but those aren't what I'm looking for. I made a pair of centerseams of sheepskin, actually mouton, I think, with the wool inside, and they work remarkably well. Does anyone have references to fur moccasins in the 18th or early 19th century?







Spence

I remember from the museum of the fur trade quarterly a photo of western plains style mocc out of buffalo hide fur inward. I understood from the piece that they were oversized so they could fit over a pair of dry Mocs worn and changed as needed. As I remember ther were collected late, like 1860s or so. Photos of wounded knee the dead all look to have some sort of large mocc on but you can't tell if it's stuffed or fur lined.

Nice selfie. Cool looking stuff.

How cold and wet is it when you are out?

I dunno about fur but, having loaded up on a couple of pair wool stockings in cold weather, the wool will keep you warm even in wet weather but you gotta keep it dry to sleep.

I have sets of sheep skin with the wool inside. I use them as inserts for my winter Ft Ligonier Mocs/Boots. They work great for me. I do water proof (Bear grease) them from the ankle down.

I wear these mocs with at least two pairs of wool socks, one of them knee-length. I also usually wear a smaller pair of shearling-lined mocs inside. They are like other mocs, they work best in weather cold enough to freeze everything. We don't have really extreme weather here, but I've stayed comfortable all day with them at just above zero.

When the weather is cold, but above freezing, it's best to walk on the rocks with any mocs. :grin: I've found, though, that if I'm wearing wool socks inside any mocs which get wet in cold weather, I don't find it as uncomfortable as I imagined I would when I first started venturing out in colonial gear. If I have dry mocs and socks to change into at night, I do surprisingly well. My interest in doing all this crazy stuff is to experience what the old boys did, so I don't wear modern footgear, and accept that I'm going to have cold, wet feet at times, and it's not a deal breaker.





I'll admit to cheating, at times, as I've grown older, for health reasons. If I want to wear my colonial kit and I know I'm going to have cold wet feet all day, I have occasionally slipped a very thin plastic bread storage bag over my wool socks. Then the mocs and outer socks can get cold and wet but my feet do not.

I also have a pair of shoepacks with wool blanket inserts which work very well.

I gave up trying to waterproof any mocs with grease years ago. It never worked for me.

Spence

I'll admit to cheating, at times, as I've grown older, for health reasons.

Hope you're not being to harsh on yourself for cheating. After a while you hit a threshold where you have a lot less to prove, and your pics imply that. You also have to accommodate comfort or stop going. I'd rather cheat a little, keep it hidden and still go until I just can't anymore.

I ended up cheating for the sake of comfort on trail walks by wearing less socks to make a little room in my mocassins. Then I went to the dollar store and trimmed the thong out of a pair of flip flops that matched my foot print exactly. With some rubber cement, I put 'em in. I call 'em "Schmoccassins" and have to tell people what I did because they can't tell the difference.

Makes a lot of difference and there is no such thing as rough ground anymore. Now all I need is a spine replacement, but I can't find that in my Popiel's Doctor-in-a-Box...

Keep it secret, keep it safe.

Yeah, I did something similar. I've been doing it so long I forgot it was cheating. :grin:

I cut a thin but hard piece of leather to the outline of my foot, skived the edge really thin so it molds to my moccasin, and even I can't tell it's there. Takes the sharp off the rocks right nicely.



Spence

Greg Geiger said:

Hope you're not being to harsh on yourself for cheating.

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I take it easy on myself in that regard. I've found that there always a lot people around ready and willing to make me feel guilty, so I don't need to bother with it. :haha:

Spence

You have a sharp eye Tenngun, I've seen that photo many times and I never picked up on that. Oversized mocs indeed. My grandmother was a little girl at the time, over the border in Nebraska.

Nicely skived.

Lemme Ax Yoo dis...

You know those Ligonier Rifleman mocassins being sold currently? The ones with the center seam and sewn on sole?

I always thought the originals were a patched up pair of center seams and they ended up being converted into production....sort of like the Brown Besses years ago with the dented trigger guards because the Sons of Nippon got their hands on a damaged original they used for duplication.

What say you?

You might want to stitch that sole on rather than insert it because it could fit and feel better.

IN any case, nice job and enjoy your work.

Greg Geiger said:

You know those Ligonier Rifleman mocassins being sold currently? The ones with the center seam and sewn on sole?

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Not sure, but these may be a version of those. They are of moose, have a double sole. It has been a long time, but I believe they were Mark Baker's version of the Ligonier moc. I don't know how correct they are, but they work great in cold weather.

You might want to stitch that sole on rather than insert it because it could fit and feel better.

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It works extremely well inside, so much that I can't tell it's there. And the mocs look better that way, to my eye.



Few aspects of reenacting have given me as much pleasure as making and wearing moccasins. I am really hooked on the feel of them in the woods, like an organic part of Gaia. Weird, I know, but there it is. You gotta take your pleasure where you find it. :grin:

Spence

In the past I've made my own cold weather moccasins, sheep shearling boots inside an elk skin outer boot . I'm gettin too close to 80 years old so this fall I'll be wearing Dyer's 5 lace boots, fleece lined buffalo.

Here's a link to a pair of western side seam buffalo hair in winter mocs.
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/7...DHoKjCTiTjebySLeMENDHyTp+8mrc6wAWzUcP4twxCQ==

These were made oversize to fit over a regular pair of mocs and the area in between the inner and outer pair was often stuffed with fur or grass or ??? in order to add more insulation.

As for getting old and "cheating" when things are wet I like a pair of Gore-Tex socks, but then I don't think of it as cheating since unlike the frontiersmen of old my feet aren't as tough although I go barefoot as often as possible which helps some. Many of the old timers generally grew going barefoot and/or wearing only mocs so they developed heavily callused feet.

Thanks for the link. Cool mocs, and sort of what I imagined they must have done.

Spence

This is what I got when I clicked on the link

403 - Forbidden: Access is denied.
You do not have permission to view this directory or page using the credentials that you supplied.

Click to expand...

Same here.
Best Wishes,
WW

You guys certainly have some nice Wintery moccasins. Shoe overpacks is what I'm most familiar with. But there's a season to campaign. And 17th C. shoes are largely open on the sides -- not great for rain no less snow...

Here's the winter boots I mentioned in my above post. Sheep sheerling inside elk skin outer. The leather was soaked with bear grease, as much as they would take. Pants and shirt were made from Green Whitney blankets, hat was otter

Link works for me. Those are some interesting looking mocs.

Longhunter. Make sure you use Ice creepers with those Buff boots ,I have the Arrow solier de bouf boots ,very similar
I ran out in em first snow and never had more slippery shoes
I got some Shoe Goo at Kmart and glued leather strips to the bottom and they work great now