TVM Custom build

it is so funny. If anyone rings the TVM bell ol' pavlov's dog comes running to slobber out his hate. OBTW I do know Matt personally. Spend a lot of time at his shop and across a fire from him

Well I dont know Matt personally. Only met him for a brief few seconds one time. But after reading all the posts of this thread and others about anything to do with TVM I can without a doubt say I would take the word of Matt over a barking foolish dog anytime, anywhere

For the guys on this thread upset with TVM . . . I got screwed buying a Mauser Broomhandle and later a Colt 1917 revolver. Didn't get what was advertised with the Mauser and paid way too much for the Colt, had to put in a new paw (hand) and ratchet to get the cylinder to time right. . .

BUT - There's an old saying about buying a good gun. You don't really pay too much . . .You just pay too soon.

14 years later, I could probably make about $300 selling the Colt now, so it all worked out. . . even though It's not my favorite and the grips are faux wood.

hanshi said:

Okay, I may have missed something all along; but it seems clear now that your hatred isn't TVM guns at all but Matt, himself. Do you know him personally? Even a disappointing gun deal with someone wouldn't rile me with venomous hate toward an individual. All the homo sapiens I know are humans; and humans are, horrors, human! They have bad days, make mistakes and are prone to occasional misunderstandings. I learned this from years as a cop; a speeder's not necessarily a scofflaw, maybe his wife just left him or he lost his job or his oldest child has been kidnapped. You just never know. That's why I always approached people with the idea of hearing what they have to say...or make up.

Tell you what, Alden, if you can convince and help me to agree with you about Mr Avance I have a friend/student who use to work for a "capo" in New Jersey; he (my friend) still knows "people". I'd be willing to round up a couple of guys (whose last names end in a vowel) to send a message, Ahem! They'll expect a little "traveling money" and that would be YOUR part of the task. I don't like being cheated, either.

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hanshi my name ends in a vowel let me know if you need me paesano. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

TVM told me I should expect to wait about 6 months, and right at the 6 months mark is when they told me they were putting the finishing touches on my rifle. I got my gun a few weeks later. I may have lucked out and asked for the right style/combination of parts they had on hand.

Well, I got my TVM rifle quick enough - bought it "used" (he had never shot it!) from Kermit at a great price, and he shipped it out to me by 3-Day Priority mail !!!

The gun I did wait for was from the "other" Matt at NSW ... took a little over four months (which included the Christmas and New Years holidays). Seemed very reasonable to me.

Quality Chief's gun and builder! Very happy with both it (but still learning how to aim without a rear sight, lol) and doing business with Matt.

I found this statement on Shipman's site interesting (I suppose he figures he can sell the gun regardless of it the original buyer buys it or not!):

"To commission a piece, the buyer, upon reaching agreement with the gunmaker, will receive an informal contract describing the project in detail and the cost. The buyer may purchase the major components or authorize the gunmaker to act as his agent to purchase the components and materials necessary to construct the firearm. The cost of the components constitutes the down payment. Upon completion the buyer pays the balance of the agreed upon price and the firearm is shipped with a ten day inspection period during which the customer may return the piece in the condition it was first shipped for a full refund. The customer's only obligation is return shipping charges.

The waiting period for commissioned pieces will never be less than four months. The gunmaker will not accept further orders when the backlog approaches two years."

I would love to have one of his guns !!!

Northwest is top drawer people and quality. But, I'm sure a lawyer would defecate little green apples at the oxymoron

informal contract

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.
However, their reputation is binder on the agreement.

Note in my post that the contract was Bill Shipman's, not Matt Denison's (he shoots for 90 days, but it was very understandable why my order took a bit longer).

Here is my TVM ... very happy with the workmanship:

Looks sharp Dewey! Greg.

I like it. It looks sorta like a "York" style build.

It seems as if I have been reading this thread for hours. I have limited experience with TVM and Mr. Avance. My best friend bought a Tennessee rifle kit from him over year ago. It was inexpensive and basic. The stock was listed as maple, so I believe it, but it was the softest and lightest weight maple I have ever seen. This was a kit aimed at someone with very limited funds, so a number of cost saving steps had been taken. The ramrod hole was only drilled an inch or two into the lower forearm, then a router cut a deep groove below the barrel channel. The lock supplied was a Siler, but had been assembled by someone in the TVM shop, therefore was not warranted by Jim Chambers. It seemed to work fine, however. This same friend bought a TVM rifle with Matt's name engraved in the barrel last year at the Davy Crocket Days in Tennessee. He bought it from a third party who said he had won the rifle but never shot it. We took the .40 cal. rifle out and shot it. It shot fine. Frank only shot it three times at about 40 yards and got three cloverleaf shots cutting one hole. Can't complain about that. What one can complain about, however is how slab sided both stocks were. The web between barrel and ramrod channel seemed very, thick resulting in poor architecture. (This rifle also had the routed out hole in lieu of a drilled ramrod hole.) Unless it is the camera angle, the rifle who's photos appear in Roundball's post number 1494291 shows the same deep forend. I have not examined any other rifles from TVM, but remember someone recently complaining about the same thing. Some of the photos shown in this thread appear to have nice slender forearms. I bought a Tennessee trigger guard from Matt a number of months ago. It was very thin and poorly cast. As it turned out, a casting flaw made it unusable. I sent an email to Matt asking how he wanted to make this right. I never received a response, and due to the relatively small expense, I just bought one from TOW for a few dollars more. IT seem to me the admonition to be careful is good advice. It is your money. If this is what you want, go for it. (I make my own.)

TVM ( Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading ) doesn't make trigger guards, they buy them from either Tennessee Valley Manufacturing or some other vendor. I know on three of my squirrel rifles, a .32 caliber southern mountain by TVM, a .32 caliber dixie tennessee squirrel rifle, and a .36 caliber southern mountain ( builder unknown ), all the trigger guards are thinner than on my lancaster or my early virginia rifles.

As far as the email I'd have sent more than one, or a quick phone call. Emails get lost or misplaced, I've done it myself.

Kopfjaeger said:

Emails get lost or misplaced, I've done it myself.

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Agree...I never cease to be amazed at the public smear campaigns launched over such circumstances.

Roundball said:

Kopfjaeger said:

Emails get lost or misplaced, I've done it myself.

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Agree...I never cease to be amazed at the public smear campaigns launched over such circumstances.

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OK folks, since you have read this tedious thread this far, I have a simple task for you. Please re read both the previous replies to my post above. Then, re read my post. See if you can find any statement where I attacked or made any kind of personal judgment concerning Mr. Avance of=r TVM. For instance: Kopfjager took exception to my comment about the poor quality trigger guard. Or did he. I never said anything about who may have made the trigger guard. Then both acted as if I had accused Mr. Avance of refusing to make it right. I said the money was not much, so I just bought another guard somewhere else. I never said or inferred that TVM had refused to refund or replace the guard. I smeared no one, I only told my experience.

Now. You decide who has been doing the smearing on this thread.

Frogwalker, I think we live in such a PC world and a coarse culture that dissent is not taken well by many, but I think you said your opinion and need not apologize.

I am prone to support TVM as I have repeatedly said, but have never bought anything from them. I am a prospective customer and want to know the good bad and the ugly before i lay down a big wad of money and I will expect to get a good kit.

There's a lot about TVM that appeals to me as a first time builder. . . and still does right now, BUT in talking to them earlier today, I was not happy to learn that to get a .32, as advertised as an option in their late lancaster on their site, it is going to cost me an extra $75. . I hadn't quite gotten comfortable with their $50 shipping yet. . then that pops up. Not a disqualified, but its going to delay my purchase timeline somewhat and I am still shopping.

Tomorrow I plan on asking if they can do a kit inlet for the large slier lock, but not include the lock in the kit, and discount it. ( I may buy the full and warrantied lock myself direct from Chambers.) Or ask about an L&R lock. . . I appreciate your experiences and am open to suggestions of other kit companies.

frogwalking said:

Roundball said:

Kopfjaeger said:

Emails get lost or misplaced, I've done it myself.

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Agree...I never cease to be amazed at the public smear campaigns launched over such circumstances.

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OK folks, since you have read this tedious thread this far, I have a simple task for you. Please re read both the previous replies to my post above. Then, re read my post. See if you can find any statement where I attacked or made any kind of personal judgment concerning Mr. Avance of=r TVM. For instance: Kopfjager took exception to my comment about the poor quality trigger guard. Or did he. I never said anything about who may have made the trigger guard. Then both acted as if I had accused Mr. Avance of refusing to make it right. I said the money was not much, so I just bought another guard somewhere else. I never said or inferred that TVM had refused to refund or replace the guard. I smeared no one, I only told my experience.

Now. You decide who has been doing the smearing on this thread.

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I did not take exception about the trigger guard I was just clearifying where they came from, and the type I had on my rifles. And my comment about sending more than one email or to call him was just an suggestion. Like I said sometimes emails get lost, or miss placed. If you read into my comment more than what I wrote that's on you because their was no malice intented. Your the one trying to argue not me. And " I " never said you were smearing. Nor did I say you were making a personal judgement on Matt.

If you are looking at other locks, I can tell you the L&R Queen Anne lock I have on my .50 cal. Early Lancaster is an excellent, reliable, and fast lock. You may have the same concern with it that you do with the Silers about how that size works for your .32, but my experience with L&R locks has been exemplary.

Twisted_1in66:thumbsup:
Dan

In looking at Petonica River for a stock it says they will only inlet for the components they sell ( I think I read that - but I've read so much). They use for Lefty's the classic, which is similar to the Chambers' Siler that also comes in LH, and a slightly smaller Manton which might be neat on a late lancaster in .32. Any of those three are fine with me.

IMHO the best brass parts come from either Barbie Chambers or Dave Keck.....or a custom person.

tomtom said so.... :metoo:

frogwalking said:

What one can complain about, however is how slab sided both stocks were. The web between barrel and ramrod channel seemed very, thick resulting in poor architecture. (This rifle also had the routed out hole in lieu of a drilled ramrod hole.) Unless it is the camera angle, the rifle who's photos appear in Roundball's post number 1494291 shows the same deep forend.

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To no one in particular, just quoting the above because it matches what I see in TVM builds (maybe not all, but enough as I've seen many Matt Avance signed guns for sale on ToTW to validate it's not just one or two built this way.)

It's always interesting how passionate the discussions get when it comes to TVM. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle for most.

In general, I think TVM fills a niche for relatively low-cost rifles that can look better than many of the factory rifles, but even TVM disclaims HC/PC, so if that's what one is looking for, TVM is probably not the choice.

I'll just sum it up like this. Look at two picture posts by Roundball. The TVM in post 1494291 and the Michigan-made Dickert in 1494299. If one cannot see or does not care about the obvious differences (don't look at curly vs plain maple as that has nothing to do with the build) then one will probably be perfectly happy with a TVM. If those differences matter, then maybe one should look at other builders and probably expect to pay a bit more. Both will probably put a round ball in the same place time after time with a properly developed load.

As a side note, I have a TVM and several other flinters built by some very talented builders, so have some direct comparisons in my gun safe. Not knocking a TVM for what it is meant to be, but if I had to spend hours looking at a truly fine rifle, I wouldn't pick the TVM out of the safe compared to others I have. If I wanted a good shooting, lower-cost rifle that's perhaps a step above most production rifles, the TVM fills the bill.