Anti-chamber Blue Ridge Rifle

Could not resist Cabela's current sale price on Blue Ridge and $ 20 rebate. Ordered a .50 cal. But, I'm concerned about the reports and photos of patent chamber problem.
How hard is it to remove breech plug after taking vent liner out? Do threads get wrecked? Could a threaded drill bit be locked to a long rod and used to drill it out without removing plug?
One could observe drill bit depth through vent hole. And keep spinning it lightly to polish area? Have seen photos of it opened up to about 1/4". Or, are current rifles already corrected?

Put a link here to photos of this on 24hourcampfire but it was removed??

I'm curious. What is the reported problem you are trying to correct.

Look at photos on 24 hr. campfire, pictures worth a thousand words. Google: 24 hr. campfire Blue Ridge breech plug.

Also from another forum:

"The patent breech on my Pedersoli Blue Ridge rifle set the main charge 1/2" forward from the vent and there was a very narrow 0.19" diameter flue running from the vent to the main charge 1/2" away. This was a promised ignition problem. First, cleaning that 0.19" flue was but one ugly problem.
Second, after shooting several shots, the flue would foul and even 3Fg would bridge the flue and no powder would get down to the vent.

If and when I wiped the bore, even more fouling would be pushed down into that narrow flue, making it next to impossible for powder to reach the vent.

So, even when the prime blast took place, it couldn't always produce enough heat or force to make it part way up the flue to ignight the powder extending down from the main charge into the flue. Too often I had to push priming powder into the vent in the hopes of that igniting the main charge and though it often would, it always promised inconsistent ignition.

The fix was to have that 0.19" diameter flue bored out to 5/16th" and the problem went away. Now there is always powder at the vent. The day the gunsmith removed the breech plug and vent to do the work, he also coned the inside of the vent. This allows powder to get closer to the prime, making it even a shorter path for that blast to have to travel before finding powder.

There are those who feel I'm all wet but the smith who did the work is a muzzleloader builder and understands these gun inside and out. I value everything he tells me since he has way more years of experience with these firearms than my 40 years of shooting them."

The photos on that website show a breech plug that hadn't been properly cleaned for god knows how long.

As has been repeated on here many times, removing the breech plug on a traditional muzzleloader is a last gasp, desperation move when nothing else works to solve a problem. It is NOT a normal operation.

I would shoot it & see if I even had a problem before I worried too much about how to fix a problem that may not exist.

180pilot said:

If and when I wiped the bore, even more fouling would be pushed down into that narrow flue, making it next to impossible for powder to reach the vent.

Click to expand...

That's operator error and not a design flaw. The error is in using a tight patch/jag combo for swabbing, which pushes the fouling down there. With a looser fit, the patch slips down past the fouling, then the patch grabs when you pull the rod back out pulling the fouling back up and out of the bore.

I've never had a misfire in any of my Pedersolis, cap or flint. Whole lot of plug pulling and drilling to cover a rookie mistake.

Bakeoven Bill said:

The photos on that website show a breech plug that hadn't been properly cleaned for god knows how long.

As has been repeated on here many times, removing the breech plug on a traditional muzzleloader is a last gasp, desperation move when nothing else works to solve a problem. It is NOT a normal operation.

Click to expand...

I realize the BP problem, have 3 Hawkens, and patent breech scrapers for them. However, it looks like metal in the photo? If it is only .190 that is pretty small, and require a secondary cleaning rod tip of some kind to clean it out. The after photo appears much bigger then .190 IMHO as if drilled out. I'll be dropping my bore scope down it on arrival.

BrownBear said:

180pilot said:

If and when I wiped the bore, even more fouling would be pushed down into that narrow flue, making it next to impossible for powder to reach the vent.

Click to expand...

That's operator error and not a design flaw. The error is in using a tight patch/jag combo for swabbing, which pushes the fouling down there. With a looser fit, the patch slips down past the fouling, then the patch grabs when you pull the rod back out pulling the fouling back up and out of the bore.

I've never had a misfire in any of my Pedersolis, cap or flint. Whole lot of plug pulling and drilling to cover a rookie mistake.

Click to expand...

If the jag cannot get into the patent breech, how can it pull fouling out? I found junk in the patent breech of one of my rifles even after hot water flush. And, I always clean after shooting. I used small diameter nylon brush spun with patches on it to clean it completely out until bore scope shows it's clean.

180pilot said:

Bakeoven Bill said:

The photos on that website show a breech plug that hadn't been properly cleaned for god knows how long.

As has been repeated on here many times, removing the breech plug on a traditional muzzleloader is a last gasp, desperation move when nothing else works to solve a problem. It is NOT a normal operation.

Click to expand...

I realize the BP problem, have 3 Hawkens, and patent breech scrapers for them. However, it looks like metal in the photo? If it is only .190 that is pretty small, and require a secondary cleaning rod tip of some kind to clean it out. The after photo appears much bigger then .190 IMHO as if drilled out. I'll be dropping my bore scope down it on arrival.

Click to expand...

Captchees' description of the blockage was

This is what the plug looked like after it was cleaned up .
notice how much fouling had built up on the breech face . thus restricting the powder from entering the breech.

Click to expand...

As for cleaning that narrow section, a good flushing will get the crud out. If in doubt pull the vent liner and run a pipe cleaner up there to check. I've got a Mortimer with the narrow section and I have yet to have any fouling show up on the pipe cleaner test. Never had any ignition problems either, but I'm a spit patcher, not a wiper.

180pilot said:

If the jag cannot get into the patent breech, how can it pull fouling out?

Click to expand...

Lyman solved that one a couple of generations back and includes it in the instruction manuals for their muzzleloaders.

Use an undersize brush, selected to fit the patent breech. They recommend 35 caliber for theirs. For the Pedersoli, I use a 30 cal or 27 cal brush with a patch wrapped around it. Takes seconds, and no issue.

You'll be amazed however, how little fouling actually "builds up" in the patent breech if you use a proper jag and patch in the first place. Most of that down there is pushed down the bore while swabbing, rather than a direct result of ignition within the patent breech.

Pull breech plugs and drill if you really think you need to. But I'm in t'other camp that's never needed to do so, never had a rust problem, and never had a misfire. Your gun, your way.

I may need all the ignition help I can get. As planning on using some long stored Goex Clearshot for the main charge. I have about 6 lbs. of it left from early 2000's, stored in shut off refrigerator at a very constant temperature. Has ignited and done well in all my caplocks so far. My Idaho Elk load with 444 gr. Powerbelt all lead flatnose and 110 grs. zips out of my TC Black Mt. Mag. sidelock, chronographed at 1250 fps. with 3" groups at 50yds. (iron sights and old eyes.) Original tests showed it was only sub. that would ignite in flinter with just BP in primer pan and only Clearshot in barrel.

Clearshot, being a synthetic black powder replacement may work alright with a percussion gun but it will work poorly or not at all in a flintlock if loaded by itself.

If your going to use this powder, it will need a "starter load" of real black powder down the barrel before loading the Clearshot. About 5-10 grains of real black powder will do.

Getting back to the breech plug problem you mentioned, that breech plug was not machined correctly. If the machining had connected the powder chamber with the vent hole and the bore, the guns owner would not have noticed his problem.

As for wiping the bore, yes, it easily can cause the loosened fouling to get into the powder chamber and vent hole if it isn't done right.

The right way to wipe the bore (IMO) is to run the damp (not wet) patch down the bore and let it sit there while you count to 10.
Then, in one smooth move, pull the jag/damp patch up out of the barrel.

The waiting period allows the hard fouling to become soft and loosen from its grip on the bore.

Then, pulling the jag/damp patch out in one smooth pull will wipe the soften fouling off of the bore wall and bring it out of the barrel.

Do NOT pump the damp patch/jag up and down the bore. That is an excellent way of causing the fouling to be knocked loose and fall into the breeches powder chamber/flame channel/vent hole.

I believe he will be ok with clearshot in his flintlock without the black booster. It was made by APP for goex. I tested 3f Jim Shocky Gold(also by APP and very close,I believe) one hundred shots in 3 different flintlocks with no fail to fires or serious hang fires with no booster, but 4f black in the pan.

Was it as fast as black? NO Was it better than not shooting? Yes. Accuracy was comparable to black.
Please report back with your results with the clearshot. Time will tell.

I had two Blue Ridges over the years. Still have a .50 barrel stashed somewhere.

Now the .50 barrel did have the small flue.
I used 3f and banged the side of the gun after pouring the powder and misfires were not a problem. If you don't swab and shove dung down in the flue.

The .54 I bought once had a much larger flue than the .50 so maybe they already cured the problem. The .54 had a flue of about .35 caliber.

Bob

when cleaning I put a tooth pick in the vent or nipple , fill the barrel with water and walk away for 20 or 30 minutes, everything nice and soft cleans without any problems.