• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

Craptastic first day with flintlock

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

maypo59

40 Cal.
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
102
Reaction score
1
OK, so I have been shooting cap guns for a while. been wanting to try a flinter. Was at a gun show this weekend, (which had the highest density of ML's I have ever seen BTW)and there was a fellow with (among other things)a Pedersoli Kentucky, .45cal, from the mid 70's, never been fired. Absolutely perfect shape. About 1/3rd the price of any NIB one I can find on the web..

So yesterday I found some .440 Rb's for it. 1st shop I looked in..

All seems golden..

Decided to swab the bore before loading and shooting first time, after all it's been sitting for 40 years. First patch comes back with just a bit of old funk on it.. put fresh patch on, send down barrel..

That's right. Patch and ramrod end are now in the bottom of the barrel, fairly well lodged it seems, not attached to anything but each other. FUDGE!! (only I didn't say fudge) lol

So it seems I am at an impasse.. web gurus vary between drain cleaner to eat the patch, or to work powder in behind it and shoot it out. OH, and NOT to try to remove the breech plug. (which seems smartest.. but apparently ain't easy or to be undertaken lightly)

So.. the cheapest route, other than hanging it on the wall, seems to be the draino dealeo. But not sure it is completely safe for the metal.. At least 2 people report they had to leave the draino in there about 3 hours. I know I have left it in my pipes longer than that, and they didn't seem damaged. I am thinking to put a patch in an old glass, cover it, see how long it takes to break it down.

The second recommended route is to "shoot it out".. This rifle doesn't have a vent liner. Seems it would take a couple weeks to get any powder into that little vent hole. However, for about $35 I can get a White Lightning instal kit from TOW.. then I could instal the liner, remove, work powder in, replace liner and "let her go.."

Thoughts? Experience? Tips?
 
Was the second patch dry ?

If so, I have had good luck with pulling the barrel and setting it breech down in a bucket of warm water and slowly working the rod back and forth until the patch was saturated and easier to remove.
 
ApprenticeBuilder said:
Was the second patch dry ?

If so, I have had good luck with pulling the barrel and setting it breech down in a bucket of warm water and slowly working the rod back and forth until the patch was saturated and easier to remove.

Yes the second patch was dry.

Unfortunately, I can work the rod around all I want.. it's not attached to anything anymore.
 
This may not have anything to do with your problem but after you get the jag out make sure you are using a "wasp waisted" jag and not a "button" jag. Since this isn't your first muzzleloader you may already know this, so nevermind.
 
A Pedersoli without a vent-liner? That is odd.
Do you have an air compressor? If yes, try to find one of those ball pump attachments for it.
The automotive shops usually have these sets for around $10 where something will work.
Then spray some WD-40 down the barrel and let the patch get soaked and slippery. Should not require much pressure now to blow it out. You just need a good seal at the vent hole when you blow compressed air into it. When you blow it out, point the muzzle to the ground onto something soft. It comes out with force.
And then get yourself one of the period ramrods: http://www.periodramrod.com/index.html
They look period correct, but are all steel inside. Everything will be fine.

And: removing the breech plug on a traditional muzzleloader is the most "stupid" thing to do.

When you use rod accessories, make sure they have positive mechanical fasting. Especially brushed and bore mops!! They need to be made for ML guns.
The normal cheap centerfire stuff will not make you happy and can cause you more headache than you want....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not understanding why the "ramrod bottom" is there -- why won't it attach to a rod?

CO2 discharger.

Powder probably WON'T work -- touchole is now blocked in breech by patch isn't it?

Unscrew breech block finally. New gun? After soaking in penetrating oil -- what's the issue!?
 
Please don't dump DRANO down a rifle barrel that is sure to cause pitting. You can dribble 4f powder through the touch hole, it may seem to take forever but five minutes of patient work will pay big dividends in removing the obstruction without damage to a fine rifle.
Fill the pan with 4f, tilt the rifle on it's side and tap lightly on the barrel to help the powder trickle through. Get 3 or 4 pans full into the barrel and then fill the pan one last time and fire it off in a safe direction.
Installing a vent liner is not a bad idea but the "white lightning" liner is not removable so if you again fine yourself with a bore obstruction such as a dry ball you will again be faced with and even worse dilemma since the white lightning vent liner comes with a really tiny touch hole. I'd go with one of the Thompson/Center 1/4x28 Allen screw liners.
 
It won't take much powder to blow that out. Just trickle about 3 grains of powder into the touch hole. A vent pick of some kind can help. Then shoot.
As said, you need a proper jag on the rod to avoid repeats. But, do clean the bore well and inspect with a good bore lite. You may have something down there that is a patch/jag grabber. Wouldn't be the first time.
 
And the Pedersolis usually have a smaller powder chamber percussion breech, even though they are flintlocks. It should be not an issue to get it out. Stay away from chemical like drain cleaner etc. This is ill advice.
 
Alden said:
Not understanding why the "ramrod bottom" is there -- why won't it attach to a rod?

CO2 discharger.

Powder probably WON'T work -- touchole is now blocked in breech by patch isn't it?

Unscrew breech block finally. New gun? After soaking in penetrating oil -- what's the issue!?

The ramrod END is in there.. as in.. no longer attached to a rod. Pulled off the end of the wooden ram rod. No threads to try to attach to. I thought about trying to send a wood screw down there on the end of a steel rod, but decided that it would mushroom or spread the head of the rod end, possibly locking it in place.

It appears to have a "patent breech" which means there is smaller diameter "hole" in the plug where the touch hole is. The patch and rod end are above that spot. I should be able to work powder into that space.

I don't have any 4f, only 3f..

The issue with unscrewing the breech is.. every body seems to be in agreement that it's a bad thing to do.
 
CoyoteJoe said:
Please don't dump DRANO down a rifle barrel that is sure to cause pitting. You can dribble 4f powder through the touch hole, it may seem to take forever but five minutes of patient work will pay big dividends in removing the obstruction without damage to a fine rifle.
Fill the pan with 4f, tilt the rifle on it's side and tap lightly on the barrel to help the powder trickle through. Get 3 or 4 pans full into the barrel and then fill the pan one last time and fire it off in a safe direction.
Installing a vent liner is not a bad idea but the "white lightning" liner is not removable so if you again fine yourself with a bore obstruction such as a dry ball you will again be faced with and even worse dilemma since the white lightning vent liner comes with a really tiny touch hole. I'd go with one of the Thompson/Center 1/4x28 Allen screw liners.

Thanks for the heads up.. I thought they all were, but looking at the way the kit instals, I see it won't end up with a screw slot or anything to grab onto. Seems odd that they didn't have a plan for that.. (White Lightning)
 
I once got really luck and coated the tip of the ramrod that came off with super glue and was able to get it stuck back on, an hour later I was able to pull the jag out. Just be careful to use t ONLY on the CENTER of the rod tip so the stuff doesn't get on the side of the barrel. I'd certainly try to get a bit of powder in and fire it out though. Don't take much as it shouldn't be too snug.
 
Once again, this illustrates the importance of cross pinning your rod ends before any use.

Unfortunately, Lyman and apparently also Pedersoli don't seem to know this.
 
maypo59 said:
I don't have any 4f, only 3f..

You can grind 3Fg into something much finer if you are careful. I have a mortar and pestle, but you can make due with a rounded bottom coffee cup and a spoon, to grind a small amount of powder (any granulation)into a flour-like granulation. That will slide through your vent hole much easier, and you'll be able to shoot it out. But you'll need to be able to clean the barrel, so get your cleaning rod ready beforehand.

I also urge you to find a BP shooting club in your area. The members will be glad to have a new member, and you'll be glad to find like-minded friends.Let me know if you need a hand finding a club.
 
Trust the guys who say you can get enough powder in the vent hole to blow out the jag.

In the amount of time we've been discussing this you could have easily got 5 or more grains (weight) of powder into that vent hole if you used a straightened out paper clip to push it in.

Because of the style of your breech, the loose powder will be in a good place to ignite and blow the plug out. Just be careful where you aim it.

A 3-5 grain powder load can produce a surprising amount of power. :)
 
AZbpBurner said:
Once again, this illustrates the importance of cross pinning your rod ends before any use.

Unfortunately, Lyman and apparently also Pedersoli don't seem to know this.

based on the look of the end of the rod, it was cross pinned. 40 years ago.. I know the rod on my Pedersoli Rocky Mountain hawken is, but it's much newer.. :wink:
 
Zonie said:
Trust the guys who say you can get enough powder in the vent hole to blow out the jag.

In the amount of time we've been discussing this you could have easily got 5 or more grains (weight) of powder into that vent hole if you used a straightened out paper clip to push it in.

Because of the style of your breech, the loose powder will be in a good place to ignite and blow the plug out. Just be careful where you aim it.

A 3-5 grain powder load can produce a surprising amount of power. :)

Yep, I am going to try it this evening if I can find time.. just got in from the deer woods, have to get chores done, fresh fire built, house warmed up, get DW from the airport.. now that I am back at the house and can look at it again, with less anger in my eyes, I see the hole is fair sized.
 
Back
Top