double charge

I have double loaded more than a few times. It is my version of dry balling. I don't think there is anyway to know if the second load went off or not. You can sure feel the extra kick of the added mass. I would think it likely that the second load of powder ignites (at least partially) as it exits the barrel and is exposed to the blast of the initial charge.Even if it did ignite in the barrel it would be secondary to the main charge and the path of least resistance would be out the barrel.

Ghettogun said:

....I would think it likely that the second load of powder ignites (at least partially) as it exits the barrel and is exposed to the blast of the initial charge.

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I had thought of that actually. My previous posts were meant to solicate just this sort of thought.....though I was being a bit sarcastic too.

We need an emoticon for that....."dripping with sarcasm."

Ghettogun said:

Even if it did ignite in the barrel it would be secondary to the main charge and the path of least resistance would be out the barrel.

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I agree they should exit the bore at the muzzle. What I'm wondering is how the forces exerted by the secondary ignition affect the rear ball's velocity/trajectory. Well, wondering is a strong word....I'm not going to loose any sleep over it or anything.

But anyway, I know of a double load being fired where the balls impacted the target fairly close to one another...about a 3-4" spread at 25 yards. In that case I don't believe both charges ignited, though all of the signs of over-pressure were there that you would expect when moving over twice the mass....blown nipple, hammer returned to full cock, excessive recoil, etc.

Enjoy, J.D.

I have done it accidentally. It kicked right smart. The last time I did it I figured it out before I shot it. I had to debreech the gun to drive the ball out. I had pounded the top ball almost flat trying to drive the ball down to the loading line on the ramrod.

Many Klatch

If your patches are snug enough to contain the hot gasses, the first charge will not ignite the second charge until it leaves the muzzle. At that point, it might ignite the second powder charge. If your patches are loose enough to allow the hot gasses to get around them, the first charge will probably ignite the second charge. In either case, you will certainly notice the greater recoil. I have actually done this on more than one occasion and it does no harm to either the shooter or the gun but it sure kicks more.

If the second charge were to go off just after the initial charge, would the velocity of the second ball be greater than the first ball?

jdkerstetter said:

snipped. . . . . .

Perhaps we need a volunteer to test this...not me. They could do it over a white sheet and with some hi-tech audio recording equipment. Perhaps we could get Pletch to video it?

Enjoy, J.D.

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I'm all for controlled experimentation - but this one doesn't sound easy to control. I'm honored to have somebody think of me, but I'll decline unless a bunker is involved. I better add that all my high speed videos were done with Olympus Industrial furnishing the camera. They might frown on placing a 30K camera close to this experiment.
Regards,
Pletch

I guess I stirred up more questions than answers. I kind of thought the question first posed might just do that. I agree with pletch that this experimental test would be very difficult to have a control over. This was just a thought that entered my withered brain. and really doesn't need answering. I still do not condone double charging, and will do my best to do my part to not do this. Did that make sense?

Just occurred to me that there must have been quite a few instances of double-loaded guns being fired during the Civil War. I understand that soldiers in combat often picked up a fallen musket and loaded without checking the barrel. Consider the number of xx-loaded guns following Gettysburg.

Hi Pletch! I'm glad you were able to infer the humor in my post.

You have to admit though,it might be fun....but only to observe. We'll let the retarded monkeys do the work. :haha:

Enjoy, J.D.

The 1st charge is pushing the ball down the bore and IF the 2nd charge fires it should push back with the same pressure as the 1st one pushed
forward ,effectively, stopping the 1st ball in the bore and pushing the 2nd ball out the bore.
???????????? wouldn't it?
Once I had a guy bring me a TC Hawken that had something stuck in the barrel. I found 4 1/2 loads in that gun.powder, ball, powder, ball, powder.ball, powder ball, then just powder, it took that long for him to realize there was a problem and they weren't round balls they were maxi balls! Glad he brought it in, I pulled all of them for him. If it didn't do anything else it would have kicked the manure out of him. Deadeye

Deadeye said:

The 1st charge is pushing the ball down the bore and IF the 2nd charge fires it should push back with the same pressure as the 1st one pushed
forward ,effectively, stopping the 1st ball in the bore and pushing the 2nd ball out the bore.
???????????? wouldn't it?

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I don't know. We need to do a test. Volunteers??? :haha:

I'm sure this could be resolved scientifically. But then we'd still have people doubting any "theory", if past post are any indication.

Seriously though, If the rear most ball were already moving, I would expect both to exit the muzzle but with the velocity of the rear ball to be significantly reduced.

If both charges ignited simultaniously or close to it, I too would expect that the rear ball would remain in the barrel. But who knows? Anybody?

As for the guy who brought that quad charged barrel into your shop, he's lucky he didn't blow his fool head off or at the very least, injure himself and others severely. :shake:

This is fun to discuss though. Enjoy, J.D.

A few years ago I managed to double load my Zouave using paper cartridges and greased minis.
Operator headspace issue.

I ga-ran-tee both charges went off and both minies went downrange. Harder kick, bigger bang, more flash and smoke.

Smoke obscured impact.