Flintlock smith needed

[Packrat]

Having been a machinist for many years, drilling any area that has been welded is problematic, the area gets hardened and drills have a tendency to wander, if using a hand drill, and break .
Think I would try shooting it first and see f it's a problem

 

[flconch53]

Finding a gun Smith on here just gets 1 or 2 gunsmiths and alot of opinions. If you are truly looking for a muzzleloading gunsmith specify that. They are not as common as a typical gun shop Smith. Try the Log Cabin shop. That is the closest to you. All that being said, the touch hole may have to be there to line up with the internal features of the barrel. The breach plug needs to be removed to determine that. I owned a Muzzleloading shop for years but I don't do it anymore

 

[sturmkatze]

if i did it myself i would epoxy in a tight screw in it, mill it off flush then drill the new hole... the answer to every question asked is in my first post and 9:53 post. The liner that was in it looks like a hex head with a hole in the middle, ,(cause thats what it is).. didn't look like a good spark gathering device to me at all. & why i took it out.. (i think i've already lost it,, but i've not looked for it too hard;>)) .. it may shoot fine in the forward low location, but i bet you won't see one in that position on any winning competition flintlock?? The middle has to be the the point of maximun flash, most efficient, reliable ignition.. forward or rear is getting a fraction of the flash. .

Why would you take the liner out and then lose it? Just because you’re not familiar with it? Do not try to do this yourself! You need some lessons. Find a black powder gunsmith around you, as you have already bunged this up.

Do not weld, certainly DO NOT EPOXY a liner or anything in. You are on a path to disaster.

 

[sturmkatze]

nah,,, i'm just a former centerfire and rimfire benchrest competitor and rifle builder, and retired pharmacist, (having built several winning rifles), & know that attention to detail is what wins. (and keeps patients alive) . . i've contacted GM & they requested the serial number,, it might be they will take care of it hope so, but its been a long time since these barrels were sold.. and since they put the flash hole in the breech plug, maybe they will change it? .. After a lot of research,, its not "too low" just forward. i've read several "high/low tests & its probably fine in that regard.

i've read every available "test" (these are probably the best, most scientific i could find at least) none considered "forward of center",, just high/low & charge position... When i do shoot this rifle , the flash hole will be in the proper position.. No sense going off "half cocked"??? eh ;>) i'm in no great hurry to shoot. i still have some kit to obtain.

YOU DON’T KNOW if it’s in the right position as you’ve never shot it. This ain’t a centerfire gun. Stop reading stuff until you’ve shot it. The above poster was dead on, you’re over thinking this.

Since you’ve never shot the gun, you don’t know. You’re assuming that it’s wrong because of internet experten. Find the touch hole liner and put it back in. You need someone to teach you.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

I'd be very nervous about a muzzleloader with a weld near the breach... or anywhere else for that matter. Back in the day, barrels were typically welded together. They don't do that much anymore except for hand-made guns generally made as part of a blacksmith/gunsmith exhibition.

@sturmkatze above has the right idea... try to shoot it first and see if there really is a problem. Most likely it will fire just fine.

 

[FlinterNick]

I'd be very nervous about a muzzleloader with a weld near the breach... or anywhere else for that matter. Back in the day, barrels were typically welded together. They don't do that much anymore except for hand-made guns generally made as part of a blacksmith/gunsmith exhibition.

@sturmkatze above has the right idea... try to shoot it first and see if there really is a problem. Most likely it will fire just fine.

Depends on the weld type.

If we’re talking about a small bead for cosmetics, e.g. not a real weld more like a braze. If you’re dropping a bead on 40-60 amps to tighten up something like a dovetail or secure a liner on the surface, i don’t think its a problem on very low amps, the metal will not get hard or brittle.

If you’re welding over a touch hole with a screw or vent liner, first question I’d ask is why bother? It probably won’t work unless your amps are up to 120 - 140. At that point, you’d better know what you’r doing in terms of steel filler and weld types.

In general nobody should be welding a barrel unless you know what you’re doing, i know Bobby Hoyt does some MIG welds but only on the outside of the barrels.

As a practice i only weld parts of a barrel that are not attached to the barrel, sights, lugs, breech plug tangs etc. If i need it repaired with a weld, i just send it off to Bobby or Mike Whiteacre. Its worth doing it right.

I’ve seen people so odd things to barrels, like stick welding lugs on barrel and welding over conversions.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Depends on the weld type.

If we’re talking about a small bead for cosmetics, e.g. not a real weld more like a braze. If you’re dropping a bead on 40-60 amps to tighten up something like a dovetail or secure a liner on the surface, i don’t think its a problem on very low amps, the metal will not get hard or brittle.

If you’re welding over a touch hole with a screw or vent liner, first question I’d ask is why bother? It probably won’t work unless your amps are up to 120 - 140.

In general nobody should be welding a barrel unless you know what you’re doing, i know Bobby Hoyt does some MIG welds but only on the outside of the barrels.

As a practice i only weld parts of a barrel that are not attached to the barrel, sights, lugs, breech plug tangs etc. If i need it repaired with a weld, i just send it off to Bobby or Mike Whiteacre. Its worth doing it right.

Biggest problem is that you can't really be sure whoever welded it knows what he is doing. I can forge weld, but anything modern is not something I do.... not even stick welding. Just never really had the need and never learned how. As I am not long for this world, I don't see any need to try to learn this late in life.

I have been asked to "fix" welded agricultural machine parts in the past. For the most part, the welds broke in the forge or were broken when the item was brought to me. I don't do this kind of work any longer, but when I did, my procedure was to cut off the weld and re-weld in the forge or start from scratch and make a new part.

 

[FlinterNick]

Biggest problem is that you can't really be sure whoever welded it knows what he is doing. I can forge weld, but anything modern is not something I do.... not even stick welding. Just never really had the need and never learned how. As I am not long for this world, I don't see any need to try to learn this late in life.

I have been asked to "fix" welded agricultural machine parts in the past. For the most part, the welds broke in the forge or were broken when the item was brought to me. I don't do this kind of work any longer, but when I did, my procedure was to cut off the weld and re-weld in the forge or start from scratch and make a new part.

I have a TIG and MIG welder that I only use for lock work, and other parts, not a lot of risk there. I don’t usually go over 80 amps on the foot pedal, mostly fixing screw holes and or moving a screw hole.

 

[longcruise]

gm LRH drop in.

i just put a different tang on the rifle & if fits much better,, but not perfect,, but darn close,, won't be difficult to fix this as the flash hole,, i'll probably try it if GM don't ask me to send it to them.. they should much as these go for now! rice barrels have to be fitted a bit at the hooked breech by filing small amounts until it lays flat.. if that was done with this one,, somebody overshot a bit....this is an easy fix though...

I doubt you will get much help from GM. The IBS barrels are made ro match TC and Lyman/Investarms tangs. If your tang is wrong or altered, that's probably the problem. If you have someone nearby with a TC, try checking it against their tang.

 

[deerstalkert]

i have a TC Hawken with a GM barrel i bought off ebay.
the vent liner already installed. i coned the entry to the vent slightly and it is one of the most reliable firing flint locks i have.
personally i would shoot it as is.

 

[TNTraveler]

I doubt you will get much help from GM. The IBS barrels are made ro match TC and Lyman/Investarms tangs. If your tang is wrong or altered, that's probably the problem. If you have someone nearby with a TC, try checking it against their tang.

This got me thinking, which can be a bad thing sometimes, why couldn't you just have someone recess the tang 1/8" farther back into the stock, recut the slot for the under barrel lug where the wedge goes through then abrasive the lug in place, problem would be solved, ? but as mentioned I'd shoot it first to see if there actually is a problem

 

[Philip Lebow]

Sir, I would install a blank liner and re-drill the flash hole centered over the pan. Less work.
2 cents

 

[Philip Lebow]

Sir, My shop LRK Mechanical Services work on black powder and antique firearms, and perform restorations.
If this is really problem, contact us at [email protected] or 928-776-6483.
We are in Prescott Arizona. I have been a gunsmith for 33 years and we perform firearms machine work and
welding (I am a certified A/N tig weldor).
We manufacture parts as well for custom repairs.
Definite plug!
We also repair revolvers and all modern firearms.

 

[exarcher]

I just got a return email from Jim Chambers,:

Your present hole location should not be a problem. One of the ignition speed tests we conducted involved moving the hole up, down, right and left from the center of the pan. Guess what, the location of the hole made absolutely no difference at all in speed of ignition. I'd leave things the way they are and just enjoy shooting the new rifle.
Jim Chambers

Now here is an answer by someone who has actually done testing & can speak with authority! I'll probably just put a new liner in it & leave it at that unless GM offers to correct the problem.. .. i have a few on the way today from Track of the wolf.. That hex nut liner just looks too "out of place" to re-install..

 

[exarcher]

Sir, My shop LRK Mechanical Services work on black powder and antique firearms, and perform restorations.
If this is really problem, contact us at [email protected] or 928-776-6483.
We are in Prescott Arizona. I have been a gunsmith for 33 years and we perform firearms machine work and
welding (I am a certified A/N tig weldor).
We manufacture parts as well for custom repairs.
Definite plug!
We also repair revolvers and all modern firearms.

Thanks!! i may be in touch!

 

[exarcher]

i have a TC Hawken with a GM barrel i bought off ebay.
the vent liner already installed. i coned the entry to the vent slightly and it is one of the most reliable firing flint locks i have.
personally i would shoot it as is.
View attachment 210894

looks like yours is to the rear a bit?? guess they had a bit of QA issue with these... thanks!

 

[Rawhide67]

whats really funny is i started this thread to find a "smith".. only one person has mentioned a smith in reply & it was himself.. it does need a bit of tightening don't it, one more thing to work on... ;>).... (i just got the rifle this morning by the way)

You are correct. Another possible place for help is Flintlock Rx in Pa. They advertise in muzzleloader magazine. My issues are already loaned out or I would provide a contact number for them. Somebody here probably hasnabrecent issue with their add in it and can provide a number.

The rest of our replies were, I'm sure, intended to be helpful and maybe allow you to avoid additional time and expense. You lose nothing by shooting it to see if there is even an issue beyond appearance. If you happen tonbe one of those individuals who can't get past the appearance, even if the gun functions fine, then send it away for work.

 

[exarcher]

YOU DON’T KNOW if it’s in the right position as you’ve never shot it. This ain’t a centerfire gun. Stop reading stuff until you’ve shot it. The above poster was dead on, you’re over thinking this.

Since you’ve never shot the gun, you don’t know. You’re assuming that it’s wrong because of internet experten. Find the touch hole liner and put it back in. You need someone to teach you.

Yes i do know,,, it is supposed to be in the center of the pan period, Just because it goes "bang" don't mean its correct,, it just means it don't matter. , Ask any custom builder how many repeat purchases he would have with off center flash holes,, It may be cosmetic in the end,, but the flash hole is supposed to be centered in the pan. ps,, i shot my first black powder guns in the 70's.

 

[beardedhorse]

The barrel looks like a Green Mountain LRH or long range hunter with faster twist. Don't know what kind of flintlock is on the stock. Depending on existing hole and thread in the touch hole you could install the Chambers White Lightning touch hole liner. However their threads are finer than conventional 1/4 x 28 and 5/16 x 24. You will need to invest in the drill and taps Jim recommends. At the very least use a decent drill press and rock steady machinist vise or other vise on the bed. Don't try to free hand it. Also a different counter sink, not a conventional 60 degree taper. You won't find the special threaded drills and taps at your local hardware, Lowes or Home Depot. I ordered mine from Track.

If you have a limited machine shop and gun smithing experience you could simply alter the position of the pan of the lock to best mate with the existing hole. Scoop it out forward. If you alter the pan geometry it may complicate using future replacement barrels with pre fit with drum or touch hole. I agree with all those who voted against welding the existing hole shut. I have better luck using the hex cavity of the set screw on the inside and install with screwdriver slot from outside. Slot is filed flush with octagon flat. Main charge powder is closer to the hot gases from priming going off. Be sure to pick the vent after shooting to clear fouling. Those set screws come in 1/4 x 28 and 5/16 x 24 threads. Might as well use a White Lightning if you go to that much trouble with hex set screws. Good luck.

 

[Scota@4570]

Leave the liner location alone. It does not matter.

Welding would be a serious mistake. Destroying the breech plug would probably result. Where so I get a so called "gunsmith license"?

The only possible way I might make the liner location better looking is to move the barrel back in the stock. That would depend on where the barrel key is riding in the barrel slot. The slot is much longer then the wedge is wide. Moving the barrel back will mess up the tang fit. The barrel will have to go deeper. It is pretty difficult work to get right.

To move the hole is not simple. A milling machine is required. You have to make a slow plunge cut. All drills seek to center themselves in the existing hole. You can not drill it out. If you go from 1/4x28 to to 5/16 x 32 white lighting you only gain 1/32". It is pointless.

Again it will not change performance, leave it alone.

Based on my extensive experience with a TC Hawken flintlock the OP had bigger fish to fry. The TC flintlocks of that vintage locks are junk.