Why would a ML rifle have a high POI?

[pacanis]

Hopefully the formula will pay off for you. At a minimum it could save on powder and lead.

It's never failed me yet

 

[ETipp]

ETipp did you check for a bent barrel as stated above?

No I did not. Not sure how to check for it. All I know is once I filed down the stock sight it was shooting very accurate.

I have been researching taller front sights. Found a few but its going to take some measuring to ascertain it will not only fit this small dia barrel, but that it will be the proper size I need. Considering I use this ML for squirrel hunting, it needs to be a finer blade. I may get by just fine with the stock sight. When my peep gets here I'll find out.

 

[Jim K]

No I did not. Not sure how to check for it. All I know is once I filed down the stock sight it was shooting very accurate.

I have been researching taller front sights. Found a few but its going to take some measuring to ascertain it will not only fit this small dia barrel, but that it will be the proper size I need. Considering I use this ML for squirrel hunting, it needs to be a finer blade. I may get by just fine with the stock sight. When my peep gets here I'll find out.

I’m sorry yours has that problem. The one I just got used shoots really good. Once you get your sights figured out, you’ll be pleased.

 

[ETipp]

I’m sorry yours has that problem. The one I just got used shoots really good. Once you get your sights figured out, you’ll be pleased.

Thanks. I have been fairly pleased with my Crockett rifle. I've shot some fine groups with it so I know its accurate. Most likely more accurate than I am.

Did some good hunting with it the last three weeks of season. Killed a few squirrels. I love hunting squirrels with that little rifle.

 

[Spillikins]

That said, maybe the rifle sights are regulated for 100yds.

This is really the crux of the matter. Saying “My rifle shoots high” is meaningless. With fixed sights it can hardly be dead on at every distance, can it? Would you be complaining that the rifle shoots low at 200yd?

 

[ETipp]

This is really the crux of the matter. Saying “My rifle shoots high” is meaningless. With fixed sights it can hardly be dead on at every distance, can it? Would you be complaining that the rifle shoots low at 200yd?

I understand what you are saying. And for the basic sake of conversation, yes. However, we are talking about a .32 Crockett rifle. Designed useful range is much less.

A ML squirrel rifle is, at best, a 40 to 50 yard rifle with 20-30 yards being the norm. A squirrel is a small target. In terms of the Crockett rifle, it is basically the .22 unmentionable of ML. With only 20 grains of 3F, it sounds like one, shoots like one, and shoots close to the same weight of projectile.

 

[Spillikins]

Thanks for that explanation. I see now.

 

[TreeMan]

I don’t think I’ve ever bought a production muzzleloader that came with sights that actually worked for me. Either front, back or both had to be replaced to get the POI close or to suit my eyes.

 

[Timber Wolf]

Sorry for the trouble with your Crockett, I have not had that issue with mine. However, I do feel that these little rifles and their uses (small game or targets) are naturals for a peep rear sight. Please post your experience with the peep when you get it mounted and dialed in. BTW, I am running a measly 17 grains of 3f in mine for targets.

 

[oldwood]

For grins and giggles , Take a look to see if the barrel muzzle looks properly crowned ?

 

[64Springer]

I don’t think I’ve ever bought a production muzzleloader that came with sights that actually worked for me. Either front, back or both had to be replaced to get the POI close or to suit my eyes.

It's terrible to have a giant skull or misshapen head.

With most rifles and shotguns I can see way over the sights. I have to scrunch my cheekbone down on the stock or cock my head to align the sights.

When I rebuilt my antique 20ga I put more than four inches of drop in the comb and the sight picture is perfect.

You can have the best sights in the world, but if your head doesn't match the stock dimensions, good luck.

 

[ETipp]

I don’t think I’ve ever bought a production muzzleloader that came with sights that actually worked for me. Either front, back or both had to be replaced to get the POI close or to suit my eyes.

Without doubt individual vision comes into play for many folks, in terms of open sights. All of my other ML have adjustable sights, which can help zero one in. Never a problem one, in terms of POI.

Considering the above, after I fitted the new rear sight to this particular ML I can actually get a fairly good sight picture. I tested this yesterday by aiming at a squirrel that was up in a tree behind my house. I also hurried and laid a TC peep on the tang and took another aim and the sight picture was clearer yet.

Those two tests are as real as it gets.

 

[ETipp]

It's terrible to have a giant skull or misshapen head.

With most rifles and shotguns I can see way over the sights. I have to scrunch my cheekbone down on the stock or cock my head to align the sights.

When I rebuilt my antique 20ga I put more than four inches of drop in the comb and the sight picture is perfect.

You can the best sights in the world, but if your head doesn't match the stock dimensions, good luck.

Interesting enough, I have bought, tested loads, shot and sold many unmentionables for over 45 years and not the first one has given me a problem, in terms of POI. Never had an issue with any ML until this one. I can, and do, hold a good group with the new rear sight that's basically the same height as the original sight. And both hit high. After I filed down the original sight my head lays down flatter being more inline with the top of the barrel and the POI is spot on. All through this conundrum my thoughts have kept going back to original sights on all old ML, as well as the replicas, and all of them had low profile sights. And most all of them had the same old stock design, mostly crescent style.

Regardless, IMO, if the two sights are properly aligned and held on the desired POA and all POI are grouped well windage wise, but still high, this is not an individual eyesight or head placement on the stock issue. The sights are either lined up or they are not.

This should not be construed as stock to head placement is not important. Simply stating the above, in terms of sights being properly aligned.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I bought an unfired TC Tree Hawk at a flea market, When I shot it shot about 5" high with the rear sight all the way down. I ordered a really tall fiber optic sight for it so I could get back in the realm of adjustment for the rear sight. The front sight was so tall it looked odd but that is what it took to get the gun to shoot right.

 

[LANEY REECE]

Bud, I got a crockett that is doing the same thing. I am learning as i read on. Laney

 

[Rawhide67]

I bought a TC Greyhawk a few years ago. I **** the TC maxi out of it. Tried different loads and could get it to shoot at point of impact. Lowered the rear site as far as it would go, got the tallest front site I could find. Still didn't work. Ended up getting a TC peep sites and dropped that all the way down. Finally shootable. This was before they started making the TC peep sites out of gold and priced went through the roof.

Only bent one barrel. It wasn't my gun, that's why I was willing to try it. But, it worked

 

[dave951]

Regardless, IMO, if the two sights are properly aligned and held on the desired POA and all POI are grouped well windage wise, but still high, this is not an individual eyesight or head placement on the stock issue. The sights are either lined up or they are not.

Again, from a marksmanship instructor, you can adjust how you align the sights for best accuracy with your gun. Check out the following links that have illustrations to what I've been talking about. There is NO law that you have to use a 6 oclock hold, nor is there a law that you have to center the sights relative to each other. That is pure and total BS. The old guns had low front posts and if you insist on shooting it with a modern sight picture, you'll get exactly the results you have been getting. Molesting the rear or front post is counterproductive. Learn the old ways.

http://www.odcmp.org/0907/default.asp?page=USAMU_SIGHTPICTURE
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2011/12/learning-to-shoot-with-open-sights-part-1/

 

[Rifleman1776]

Answer, of course, is in adjusting the front sight.
But, at 35 yards the ball may still be climbing in it's trajectory path. You might be right on at 50 or 75 yards. And, there is always 'kentucy windage'. Once you get to know your rifle you can adjust the hold for various judged ranges.

 

[dave951]

Tons of modern BS on here, learn how the ODG (old dead guys) did it.

 

[Pierre009]

So here's the situation.

Purchased a new Crockett Squirrel rifle a few months ago. Right off the bat the POI was very high out to at least 35 yards. I tried a few different things to no avail. Finally I started in on filing down the rear sight. It took a lot, and I mean a lot, to get the POI down to where the rifle was ready to hunt. By doing so it resulted in the rear sight being too darn short. Even others with good vision has stated that its difficult to shoot as is. I made through the late squirrel season as is but something had/has to change. So I dug out a fixed sight for another brand and style of ML I had lying around and filed down the dove tail so it would fit in my Crockett rifle. I was hoping that, considering it is somewhat similar to the stock rear fixed sight, that just maybe it was workable. But that was not to be. Dang thing went right back to a high POI. I have a Tom A Hawks Peep sight on the way. If it will indeed fit, then my problem should be resolved. However, due to the hammer location, I have my doubts that it will work. Hopefully it will fit and work out. If not, then it appears that my only other option is to try to find, or fab, a higher front sight that I can try to make fit.

With that said, my question is, why would a ML have such a high POI to begin with? Other than perhaps the stock not cut out properly, what would cause this conundrum?

I think one of the purposes of the high POI is as the old timers would say "bury the bead"...that way you can adjust for long distance shooting.