TC Renegade help

[ElkStalker]

I built this TC Tenegade 50cal from a kit. The reason I bought it was to shoot conicals for elk hunting. I have not been able to get this thing to group with any conical. I’ve tried Hornady GP 385, TC Maxi-balls, TC Maxi Hunters, Maxi Balls bought from October country, Lee R.E.A.L. Bullet sold locally for a while until the gentleman passed away last year. The REAL showed the most promise, but I can’t get them any more.
Today at the range I shot a group at 50yds using 80gr Goex FFg, leather over powder wad, and Hornady GP 385
This was my 50yrd group in the photo.
I did shoot round ball from it just to compare accuracy (first time in this rifle). I used a .490 cast ball, 70gr FFFg and an .018” patch lubed with TOW Mink. This was better at 3 inches and was tight, but I didn’t need a hammer to load it. I think that with some actual work up, patched round ball would do well in this rifle. Conicals, on the other hand, may be a lost cause. I’m getting frustrated because it isn’t doing what I need it to and really didn’t need another 50cal PRB rifle. Anybody have some suggestions for getting better accuracy with a conical? Unfortunately, elk season is upon me and I’ll be hunting again with my Lyman GPR 50cal (should have just bought a 54).

 

[BruceHH]

That would drive me crazy. First, check the hole on your nipple. Make sure it has not enlarged. It should be about .025. If that is not the issue, check your crown next. It does not take much - a small nick or ding or too sharp of an edge could be causing the issue. After that, check your bore to see if you hsve leading or possibly pitting. Take a 45 caliber jag and put a tight patch of green Scotch Brite down that barrel multiple times (100's).

 

[ElkStalker]

I have done the scotchbrite in the barrel, cleaned with lead remover, nipple is spanking new, but the crown…. The crown came from the factory with a “half moon” shaped ding right across the bore hole. It does not appear to affect the rifling, but may be on part of the cone recess. I’ll get a picture of it after I return home in an hour. This could be the problem.

 

[BruceHH]

I would bet that ding is your issue.

 

[ElkStalker]

I would bet that ding is your issue.

I tried different photo angles. Hopefully this shows it well enough. I wasn’t too concerned because it didn’t look like it affected the rifling, but maybe it is the problem.

 

[ElkStalker]

Zoomed in

 

[TDM]

That "ding" needs to be addressed.

 

[bang]

Get that ding out. I would measure the bore at the dings and off them. May have to go a little deeper to get to round.

 

[ElkStalker]

On the way to the gunsmith to get this ironed out.

 

[Eric Krewson]

It looks like metal is pushed into the bore slightly at the ding.

 

[ElkStalker]

It looks like metal is pushed into the bore slightly at the ding.

I see that too. It’s at the gunsmiths getting re-crowned

 

[Walkingeagle]

Good call.
Try with and without an overpowder wad once back, but I think you’ll be good now.
Walk

 

[popgun54tc]

Hope your not hunting in Colorado, 54 cal is required there.

 

[ElkStalker]

Hope your not hunting in Colorado, 54 cal is required there.

In Idaho the minimum caliber allowed is 50.

 

[Muddly]

Definitely use an overpowder wad. Go up one caliber, so a .54 in a .50. I use lubed Ox Yoke. 54/.56 in my Hawken, Renegade and Unmentionable. Works WONDERS on group size and leading. The Ox Yoke's lube is dry enought to not effect the powder, so no worries there.
Regarding the crown, make sure the gunsmith knows what he's doing. That type of correction needs to be done in a lathe. If it does displace metal into the bore, a crowning ball will be forced out of place by the defect before it can remove it so you'll have a defect on the other side. Same if abrasive on a ball lap is used. It must be cut out first, then recrowned.
Ask me how I know...
Good fortune to ya

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Stalker, what is the twist rate of your barrel? Round ball shooters use a slow twist, like one turn in 66". Actual bullets, having a long bearing area, need a much faster twist rate to stabilize for best accuracy, like ~25 to 30 " per turn.

 

[ElkStalker]

Stalker, what is the twist rate of your barrel? Round ball shooters use a slow twist, like one turn in 66". Actual bullets, having a long bearing area, need a much faster twist rate to stabilize for best accuracy, like ~25 to 30 " per turn.

This is a 1:48 twist, same as the TC Hawken

 

[#blackpowderbill]

Your renegade should shoot 1"at 50 yards RB & Conical.
1/48"
That ding is nothing. You're shooting a muzzleloader not a bench rest suppository rifle.



Is the muzzle that the bore counter board a lot of renegades were?
Try 75 to 80 grains of 2f. 3F has a faster power Spike than 2f.
If you're using triple seven back that powder charge down 10 grains.
Also check to see if your front rear sight are tight.
Shoot from a good solid rest.
And the nipple & clean bore Like was mentioned earlier.

Don't over grease.
I've owned several renegades and that's where the Sweet spot was with mine.

 

[ElkStalker]

Your renegade should shoot 1"at 50 yards RB & Conical.
1/48"
That ding is nothing. You're shooting a muzzleloader not a bench rest suppository rifle.



Is the muzzle that the bore counter board a lot of renegades were?
Try 75 to 80 grains of 2f. 3F has a faster power Spike than 2f.
If you're using triple seven back that powder charge down 10 grains.
Also check to see if your front rear sight are tight.
Shoot from a good solid rest.
And the nipple & clean bore Like was mentioned earlier.

Don't over grease.
I've owned several renegades and that's where the Sweet spot was with mine.

I was shooting 80gr of Goex 2F.
It should be doing a lot better than it is. Hopefully the crowning makes a difference.
Patched round ball, 80gr Goex 2F, .409 ball, .018 pillow ticking patch with mink oil lube from TOW was a 36” group. My Lyman GPR shots the same load in a clover leaf.

 

[ElkStalker]

Hopefully this does the trick. Gunsmith removed .003” off the face and recut the crown at 45°. Sadly lost my nice browning job, but if it shoots, I can deal with that later. Anybody know a trick for a quick browning job? I don’t really want to strip it down to go in the oven for a full refinish.