Cheapest northwest trade gun kit?

[Mason Ponton]

Who sells it? I've seen TOTW, sitting fox, and pecatonica river. The latter being the cheapest. Soon I'll have a $700 budget. I'm not scared of indian muskets and I think the cheapest is military heritage unless someone knows another. But I'm leaning towards a kit since they can be had at a similar price and I can make it how I want with a more reliable american lock. Thanks all!

 

[tenngun]

Who sells it? I've seen TOTW, sitting fox, and pecatonica river. The latter being the cheapest. Soon I'll have a $700 budget. I'm not scared of indian muskets and I think the cheapest is military heritage unless someone knows another. But I'm leaning towards a kit since they can be had at a similar price and I can make it how I want with a more reliable american lock. Thanks all!

Pecotonic isn’t cheaper, as the kit is plus wood.
The Indian gun need to be worked over to be well finished as they are bulky, but shootable out of the box.
Track and sitting Fox are very good, about one hundred hours to assemble. I have nothing but praise for both companies…. Well pecotonic is great also, and I plan a buy from Loyalist Arms about dec one

 

[Mason Ponton]

Pecotonic isn’t cheaper, as the kit is plus wood.
The Indian gun need to be worked over to be well finished as they are bulky, but shootable out of the box.
Track and sitting Fox are very good, about one hundred hours to assemble. I have nothing but praise for both companies…. Well pecotonic is great also, and I plan a buy from Loyalist Arms about dec one

Oh. Ok then which one is easier to complete? And will all of them add a bayonet lug for me? I'm planning on making a militia mod gun.Thanks!

 

[tenngun]

Oh. Ok then which one is easier to complete? And will all of them add a bayonet lug for me? I'm planning on making a militia mod gun.Thanks!

Won’t fit on an Indian trade gun. The Indian imports sell muskets and muskatoons and carbines
The Indian imports can be shot as is, but to get a better gun need the stock shaved down and the ramrod replaced with hickory. The barrels are too bright and need some dulling.
The kits need the a lot of fitting. The tang side plate,butt plate,trigger need inletting. The lock needs final fit. The gun needs breech plug fit, underlugs fitted and soldered, and drilled, and ramrod pipes inlayed. Sight needs soldered on.
Lots of wood needs removed from the fore stock. Sanded and finished.

About one hundred hours.

 

[Mason Ponton]

Won’t fit on an Indian trade gun. The Indian imports sell muskets and muskatoons and carbines
The Indian imports can be shot as is, but to get a better gun need the stock shaved down and the ramrod replaced with hickory. The barrels are too bright and need some dulling.
The kits need the a lot of fitting. The tang side plate,butt plate,trigger need inletting. The lock needs final fit. The gun needs breech plug fit, underlugs fitted and soldered, and drilled, and ramrod pipes inlayed. Sight needs soldered on.
Lots of wood needs removed from the fore stock. Sanded and finished.
View attachment 169147View attachment 169148View attachment 169149View attachment 169150View attachment 169151View attachment 169152View attachment 169153About one hundred hours.

Looks like I'm going indian . Or used... I definitely don't have the skills or time to learn for a long time... oh well. Thanks for opening my eyes!

 

[Mason Ponton]

Won’t fit on an Indian trade gun. The Indian imports sell muskets and muskatoons and carbines
The Indian imports can be shot as is, but to get a better gun need the stock shaved down and the ramrod replaced with hickory. The barrels are too bright and need some dulling.
The kits need the a lot of fitting. The tang side plate,butt plate,trigger need inletting. The lock needs final fit. The gun needs breech plug fit, underlugs fitted and soldered, and drilled, and ramrod pipes inlayed. Sight needs soldered on.
Lots of wood needs removed from the fore stock. Sanded and finished.
View attachment 169147View attachment 169148View attachment 169149View attachment 169150View attachment 169151View attachment 169152View attachment 169153About one hundred hours.

She's beautiful by the way!

 

[tenngun]

She's beautiful by the way!

Thank you
But don’t get scarred off. Lots of you tubes on kit building. Everything that looks complex is an eating the elephant thing. Just one normal bite at a time.

 

[Mason Ponton]

Thank you
But don’t get scarred off. Lots of you tubes on kit building. Everything that looks complex is an eating the elephant thing. Just one normal bite at a time.

Thanks! I've kinda flip-flopped on this one. I think I'm going to go with pecatonica river. He said to me that they inlet everything and it comes preshaped! So the rest I can reasonably do especially with the tube and forum help! Thanks again for the advice! But before I buy one have you heard of their quality? Beggers can't be choosers but still...

 

[Mason Ponton]

Won’t fit on an Indian trade gun. The Indian imports sell muskets and muskatoons and carbines
The Indian imports can be shot as is, but to get a better gun need the stock shaved down and the ramrod replaced with hickory. The barrels are too bright and need some dulling.
The kits need the a lot of fitting. The tang side plate,butt plate,trigger need inletting. The lock needs final fit. The gun needs breech plug fit, underlugs fitted and soldered, and drilled, and ramrod pipes inlayed. Sight needs soldered on.
Lots of wood needs removed from the fore stock. Sanded and finished.
View attachment 169147View attachment 169148View attachment 169149View attachment 169150View attachment 169151View attachment 169152View attachment 169153About one hundred hours.

How did you finish the wood? Did you use a stain? Or just tru oil or something like that? Pecatonica has maple stock. What do you think I should use for that? Thanks!

 

[Kentuckyjed]

I ordered a Pecatonica NWTG in April of this year and received it around the beginning of August. I had the barrel lugs and turtle sight installed, breech plug installed and all that could be inletted done on the standard maple stock. Along with the helpful book that is offered for $15 and shipped to my house I paid $908. I still had to inlet the serpent side plate, ramrod underlugs, barrel tang cut and inlet, minor lock mortise adjustments. drilled the tang bolt, drilled and tapped lock bolts, drilled and pinned barrel underlugs and ramrod lugs, drilled and installed the touch hole, butt plate inlet, lots of sanding but not a lot of shaping since it was pretty much done. This was my first attempt at any flintlock building but I researched and read any and all I could get a hold of which helped a lot. I have mediocre woodworking skills and by no means am a master wood worker but I could figure most of it out and Youtube helps as well. I bought some wood hand chisels and tools/supplies that might have added another $150-$200 to the cost also some graving tools from Ebay and a book on engraving and read and researched that as well so I could engrave on the barrel. I just finished browning the metal parts and am working on incise carving on the stock. Just sanding and sanding and more sanding to go then the Ferric Nitrate stain and Tried and True Varnish oil application and it will be complete. I take my time and work on it when I feel like it, don't get in a hurry or you will regret it. With what I learned from this is that I could have probably done the sight, underlugs, and breech plug on my own and saved some money but it wasn't much to have those services done. I probably have less than $1200 in the whole thing but I can say that I built the gun and learned a lot while doing it (priceless) I'm already thinking about building a matching Trade Pistol project in the near future. Research as much as you can. You can go the Indian route and pay around $800 plus after shipping and you don't know how backed up they might be and still have to drill the touch hole. If you by the parts kit from Pecatonica you can pretty much claim that you built it and learned on your own at least. Good Luck

 

[tenngun]

How did you finish the wood? Did you use a stain? Or just tru oil or something like that? Pecatonica has maple stock. What do you think I should use for that? Thanks!

I used Laurel Mountian Forge walnut and cherry, It turned out lighter then I wanted.
The original guns were on European walnut unless made in America then it was on American walnut. Better color shot

Around the campfire I have heard some American and Belgium made were on beech, but I’ve not seen that documented anywhere.
The buyers expected a look to the guns, Brit, American and Belgium guns were almost identical.
Most today are made on maple or the Indian on teak. Walnut adds a bit to the price. If you get maple stay away from figured and stain as dark as you can, or it looks wrong.
Another note is barrel finish. I like brown, and originals you see are likely to be brown. This is on account of age. Originals were blued.

 

[Kentuckyjed]

I went with the maple because the persona I use is a German Immigrant building a poor boy/barn gun from parts found on an old Northwest Trade Gun and maple was usually easier to acquire plus I like the look and feel of maple sometimes more so than walnut. I am going to try and stain the stock with ferric nitrate and pull it dark, if not to my liking I might add tannic acid, but I will see how the ferric reacts with the maple.

 

[Mason Ponton]

I'm not going to lie it all still seems a little intimidating. I'm confident I can solder but I can't accurately cut metal. I consider my wood working less than mediocre. I'm willing to learn and I really want to try my hand at it some day but money is tight (not hurting or anything just limited fun money), I don't have alot of the tools I think I'll need, but I love the idea of making my own gun. So I'll try to psych myself out.

Would it be better financially to have them do all the barrel work or do it myself? (I have access to a torch but no soldering materials)

Like I said my wood working may be abysmal. Unfortunately I'm not a good judge because I've done so little and what little I have done isn't very great, obviously I guess for a beginner. But how hard is it really to shape the stock if I got a half stalk as they call it? Would that be more worth it to get the full stock? (Got files and sandpaper but no chisels or planer or anything more advance than hand saws etc.)

Staining and finishing wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure I can drill and tap but I only have access to hand drills and a tiny jewelers vice. Might be able to find an old vice in my dads scrap pile.

Anyway sorry about the long post but for anyone who feels like giving advice feel free to be brutally honest and opinionated. Thanks!

 

[Horse]

Don't take this the wrong way but building some of these more advanced parts kits is a challenge. I'm not saying you cant do it but without proper tools and at least some experience using these tools I think you might be in over your head. I myself would probably try a Jim Kibler in the white gun if I were to try it for myself and I probably would screw that up
Just remember most people who used these guns back in the day did not build their own. Thats what I tell myself anyhow Much good luck which ever path you choose.

 

[Mason Ponton]

Don't take this the wrong way but building some of these more advanced parts kits is a challenge. I'm not saying you cant do it but without proper tools and at least some experience using these tools I think you might be in over your head. I myself would probably try a Jim Kibler in the white gun if I were to try it for myself and I probably would screw that up
Just remember most people who used these guns back in the day did not build their own. Thats what I tell myself anyhow Much good luck which ever path you choose.

No worries! I asked for it. I guess wood is my actual weakness. I'm confident if I had the tools I could slowly learn. I have two old Japanese tower pistols with shattered stocks I could practice on. But I don't know if I want to spend money on tools and stuff I might only use once or twice. But keep the opinions coming! This is your chance to let out some judgment on a worry wort noob

 

[user 48702]

The Pedersoli Indian Trade Gun, priced just a hair over $1,000, probably puts it out of your range, but a lot of the metal work is done, American Black Walnut stock, lock and trigger guard finished. Lots of sanding on the stock, but the basic profile and inletting is already done for you. It comes pre assembled just as some makers ship their kits in the white. Barrel just needs to be finished by bluing or browning, sight, touch hole, and breach plug is in place. I finished one out last summer and I'm happy with it, never fails to fire as long as I do my part, no lock problem at all. I'm no expert builder of kits, but here's a link from start to finish.

Pedersoli Trade Gun Kit

 

[wganz]

Skill wise, I’m in the same boat as you. So, this isn’t a dig at you but my comments about myself.
I don’t want to biden up a kit that should turn out really nice for I ultimately want to build a SMR from Jim Kibler. I got a basic Traditions kit(aka Muzzle Loading kit on training wheels) so it is a training ground to step forward. Also, the dremel tool stays in Texas while the kit is in Louisiana to keep it from being an illegal Destructive Device in munging up the kit. With that one under my belt, going to step up to an InvestArm Hawken carbine. Then, and only then, I’ll reevaluate where I am to see if I’m brave enough for a more advanced kit. If I’m not there, it’ll be another Traditions kit until I can go training wheels up with the big boys on the block.

It is my opinion about my skills, that I need lots of practice before touching a Kibler SMR or the Pecatonic River Harpers Ferry 1803. I also have issues with motor control in my hands brought on by being a male RN(aka ‘Lift Help’) in a hospital with bariatric patients(‘aka >500# Land Whales).

Regardless, I wish you the best luck for the Trade Guns are an elegant piece.

 

[Mason Ponton]

Skill wise, I’m in the same boat as you. So, this isn’t a dig at you but my comments about myself.
I don’t want to biden up a kit that should turn out really nice for I ultimately want to build a SMR from Jim Kibler. I got a basic Traditions kit(aka Muzzle Loading kit on training wheels) so it is a training ground to step forward. Also, the dremel tool stays in Texas while the kit is in Louisiana to keep it from being an illegal Destructive Device in munging up the kit. With that one under my belt, going to step up to an InvestArm Hawken carbine. Then, and only then, I’ll reevaluate where I am to see if I’m brave enough for a more advanced kit. If I’m not there, it’ll be another Traditions kit until I can go training wheels up with the big boys on the block.

It is my opinion about my skills, that I need lots of practice before touching a Kibler SMR or the Pecatonic River Harpers Ferry 1803. I also have issues with motor control in my hands brought on by being a male RN(aka ‘Lift Help’) in a hospital with bariatric patients(‘aka >500# Land Whales).

Regardless, I wish you the best luck for the Trade Guns are an elegant piece.

Thanks! And keep em coming. This is actually helping . I don't want to have unrealistic expectations. I've done that with a mutch bigger project that turned into a financial burden so heap it on!

 

[FlinterNick]

No Northwest Trade gun will be ‘cheap’, a more relative term is cheaper. Pedersoli’s trade gun kit is what I would rate as east and cheapest because… 1. You don’t need expensive tools for this kit, 2. It can be assembled on a kitchen table or the floor, 3. Your local hardware store supplies are more than sufficient for this kit.

Clay’s Smith’s kits I would rate as cheaper too, his kits are not hard to assemble and you can even ask him if he can do additional work..

TOW’s trade guns are not available, the stocks and barrels are out until they find new suppliers.

The Indian made trade guns are not really kit guns, but can be reworked, and most of the time they need to be. I would caution against overworking them, the stocks are made of brittle teak and or rosewood.

Personally if i were to do a kit, I’d go with Clay Smith. He’s always there to assist if needed.

 

[Coinneach]

I ordered a Pecatonica NWTG in April of this year and received it around the beginning of August. I had the barrel lugs and turtle sight installed, breech plug installed and all that could be inletted done on the standard maple stock. Along with the helpful book that is offered for $15 and shipped to my house I paid $908. I still had to inlet the serpent side plate, ramrod underlugs, barrel tang cut and inlet, minor lock mortise adjustments. drilled the tang bolt, drilled and tapped lock bolts, drilled and pinned barrel underlugs and ramrod lugs, drilled and installed the touch hole, butt plate inlet, lots of sanding but not a lot of shaping since it was pretty much done. This was my first attempt at any flintlock building but I researched and read any and all I could get a hold of which helped a lot. I have mediocre woodworking skills and by no means am a master wood worker but I could figure most of it out and Youtube helps as well. I bought some wood hand chisels and tools/supplies that might have added another $150-$200 to the cost also some graving tools from Ebay and a book on engraving and read and researched that as well so I could engrave on the barrel. I just finished browning the metal parts and am working on incise carving on the stock. Just sanding and sanding and more sanding to go then the Ferric Nitrate stain and Tried and True Varnish oil application and it will be complete. I take my time and work on it when I feel like it, don't get in a hurry or you will regret it. With what I learned from this is that I could have probably done the sight, underlugs, and breech plug on my own and saved some money but it wasn't much to have those services done. I probably have less than $1200 in the whole thing but I can say that I built the gun and learned a lot while doing it (priceless) I'm already thinking about building a matching Trade Pistol project in the near future. Research as much as you can. You can go the Indian route and pay around $800 plus after shipping and you don't know how backed up they might be and still have to drill the touch hole. If you by the parts kit from Pecatonica you can pretty much claim that you built it and learned on your own at least. Good Luck

I bought a Pecatonica TMR FL kit back in the late 80's and still have it, fully intend to follow up next year with a Virginia FL Rifle kit from Pecatonica, IMHO theyre good value at a reasonable price.