Cheating In Matches

[BP Addict]

I used to live in Shelbyville. Conner Prairie used to have shoots and I also shot with Blue River Long rifles. Those would probably be closest to you. Serval other good clubs that I shot with if you don't mind driving some. Go to the NMLRA web site and look at their club finder.

Isn't Shelbyville where Bob Tingle had his shop? Did you know him?

What a shame. Gone too soon!

Walt

 

[Kodiak13]

Me too. We generally make it a 'rule' that the shooter has no say in whether or not he/she scored a hit. It should be the consensus of the group. We had spme 'old buddies' who always shot together, and it was curious how much better they scored when nobody else was with them. When I was Booshway, I always made sure that there were a couple of others with them. Sad. We also had a fellow who shot his daughter's targets so she could win a provincial medal. They both got disqualified; Great parenting Dad!

Be careful about listing those you don't know as cheaters. My group consistently outshot most and we constantly heard rumors about cheating concerning us. So low and behold one day after we all turned in our score sheets I was informed there was a tie between me and the clubs best shooter(this guy was the loudest about us cheating) I could see this was a setup!
We both stepped to the line and I could hear the jeering from his friends. Range was unknown (at least to me)...I shot first and scored a perfect 10X while he hit paper for no score!!! Never heard anymore manure from those guys!!!

 

[Flintlock]

There was a guy years ago that would show up at primitive matches with peep sights, those things you stick on your eye glasses, anything he could think of just out of spite and would argue about it non stop.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Chunk and table shooters do something similar all the time.

The long-established procedure for chunk gun or table matches where you are shooting at an X target is to have a spotter target. The rules have been long established to first have three shots on the spotter target to establish a group. All the shooters place their target at their shooting position. The group in the spotting target is centered over the X on the scoring target and 1 shot is fired and the targets are collected and measured for score. Usually, the score is checked by a second scorer. The score is the distance from the crossing of the X to the center of the hole in the target. By scoring to the center of the hole, ball size cannot influence the score other than perhaps some wind effects. Only 1 hole in the target. No hole is scored at the maximum diameter target, usually 2". 10 shots with a total string measurement of less than 10 inches with less than 5 inches is normally needed to win. There is a winner for each target and a winner for the shortest total string.

The spotter target is not an aiming point to be used in place of Kentucky Windage for a long range target.

 

[BP Addict]

I agree that it has much to do with what the rules are. I’ve been to matches where Peep Sights and Spotting Optics were not allowed. But you could have your buddy act as a Spotter.

I’ve never been involved in any serious Competitive Shooting events or Championships. Just club members getting together once per month and the occasional Rendezvous. Most of the time it’s five shots and not five shots on paper. I’ve had to watch for folks leaning on the shooting benches and remind them that the match is “unsupported”. Most of our clubs allow peep sights, especially for our older shooters. One group welcomes inlines as long as it’s with open sights and solid lead projectiles. Another considers themselves “Traditional”, so none are allowed. Then there are revolvers and folks are told they can only load one shot at a time.

Occasionally, we shoot Clangers (Metal Targets) for a score. It’s on the Honor System. It never occurred to me that folks would cheat. It’s the same when we put up a target that has say, three shots. If you hit it on the first try, 30-points, second, 20, and third, 10. I’m going to a Trail Walk this weekend. We keep our own scores but none are turned in.

Most places I go would allow someone to sit in a chair and shoot unsupported if they could no longer stand for a long period of time. We want folks to still be able to do what they love and will help them any way we can to stay in the game.

A few years back and in another state, we had a couple who had finally been banned from every Rendezvous in the state because they kept winning all the prizes. They each shot the same model rifle and Trade Gun. One rifle was sighted in for close shots and the other for distance. One Trade Gun was set up for shot and the other for ball. Is this cheating? Apparently, most of the clubs thought so.

I used to be all about winning and had a really bad day if I didn’t. Finally, the light bulb went on and I realized that I was sucking all the fun out of the sport. I started concentrating on the camaraderie and just having a good time. If I won, it was the icing on the cake.

This thread has made me think about the rules of each club I shoot with and how well I understand them, or maybe not.

On another note, one of my other hobbies is Metal Detecting. I went on a Special Hunt with a club and one of their Officers found a ring in the park we were hunting. The regular outing was at the beach later in the month. This same guy showed me that same ring as if he had just found it!

I guess some folks have such sorry egos that they must win or be the Top Dog no matter what!

Walt

 

[Rifleman1776]

There was a guy years ago that would show up at primitive matches with peep sights, those things you stick on your eye glasses, anything he could think of just out of spite and would argue about it non stop.

Those are legal. They are not peep sights.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

We had people for the 100 yard target put something on the target backstop a set distance above their target to act as an aiming post for judging hold over. I pulled it off when I went to hang my target.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Chunk and table shooters do something similar all the

The long-established procedure for chunk gun or table matches where you are shooting at an X target is to have a spotter target. The rules have been long established to first have three shots on the spotter target to establish a group. All the shooters place their target at their shooting position. The group in the spotting target is centered over the X on the scoring target and 1 shot is fired and the targets are collected and measured for score. Usually, the score is checked by a second scorer. The score is the distance from the crossing of the X to the center of the hole in the target. By scoring to the center of the hole, ball size cannot influence the score other than perhaps some wind effects. Only 1 hole in the target. No hole is scored at the maximum diameter target, usually 2". 10 shots with a total string measurement of less than 10 inches with less than 5 inches is normally needed to win. There is a winner for each target and a winner for the shortest total string.

The spotter target is not an aiming point to be used in place of Kentucky Windage for a long range target.

If the spotter target was not used would Kentucky windage not be necessary?

 

[Grenadier1758]

For chunk gun matches, Kentucky windage is not necessary.

 

[Kodiak13]

For those of you with poor eyesight, those thingies on glasses people use are miraculous! It isn't a peep sight, what it does is adjust your pupil smaller so you can see thru that tiny hole. It works just like an F-stop on a camera, allowing for a greater depth of field. Which in turn allows the individual to see their sights clearly!!! It doesn't magnify your target, as a matter of fact the target generally is still blurred.
If this device is illegal to use, then we should eliminate anyone who wears glasses as well!!!

 

[Grenadier1758]

The little thing that is put on the glasses whether it is a Merit disc, punched hole in electrical tape, the stick-on to see the sights does indeed make the sights much clearer. The effect is like a pin hole camera that gives infinite depth of field. The device is called a diopter. There are some matches that specifically state that diopter attachments are prohibited. We allow the diopter sights to be used by the older shooters. We want to have all the shooters in our club to participate so we divide in classes. After all, bragging rights are a form of winning along with the benefits of social camaraderie.

 

[nhmoose]

We had people for the 100 yard target put something on the target backstop a set distance above their target to act as an aiming post for judging hold over. I pulled it off when I went to hang my target.

That IS not cheating

 

[Tenmile]

I didn’t understand Toot to mean all cheaters are septuagenarians, but that cheating occurs in all age groups.

 

[dave951]

The little thing that is put on the glasses whether it is a Merit disc, punched hole in electrical tape, the stick-on to see the sights does indeed make the sights much clearer. The effect is like a pin hole camera that gives infinite depth of field. The device is called a diopter. There are some matches that specifically state that diopter attachments are prohibited. We allow the diopter sights to be used by the older shooters. We want to have all the shooters in our club to participate so we divide in classes. After all, bragging rights are a form of winning along with the benefits of social camaraderie.

If a competition bans the use of a diopter, which I use to correct my eyesight, then I will not shoot in that competition, ever. A diopter is not an optic but levels the eyesight playing field for those of us with presbyopia. I hardly think that's cheating nor is wearing eyeglasses.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I agree with @dave951. I have used diopters and have benefited from the improved sight picture. Fortunately, I can shoot in an age class that allows diopters.

 

[tenngun]

Those are legal. They are not peep sights.

I was late teens when I started this game left eye was deformed and badly near sighted. My right eye was 20/12 and still 20/15 when I was in my thirties.
Now it’s devolved to about 20/25,
I see lots of men in their thirties, but much of our events find lots of grey beards.
Yes there is a world of difference between ‘fair play’ and enjoying this sport well past our physical peak.
But….
Fun for me is playing the game, I try to do my best in a match but it’s about fun, ribbing the others, laughing at your own screwups, just the fun of the event. Not getting a ribbon

 

[deerstalkert]

a cheater is a thief. he steals the competency of others. i hate a thief.
when i was in my late teens i was invited to play golf. the guys i played with shaved strokes so bad i never played golf again until my 50's.
i used to compete in fishing tournaments. the creativity of cheating there was a marvel. the worst were two brain surgeons, caught bloating their Marlin. lifetime ban from all fishing associations events. for a paltry 25k and a trophy. (and phony bragging rights)

 

[rrebuck]

That IS not cheating

It is in my opinion, in effect changing the target to assist in aiming. All targets should all be the same. If they can judge it by eyeballing it, then ok. Otherwise no.

 

[Bushfire]

In field and game (smokeless shotgun shooting) we have u15, u18, c grade, b grade, a grade, aa grade, women's and seniors.

Seniors can have their own rules and compete against one another. No one e complains about things being unfair that way.

 

[dave951]

It is in my opinion, in effect changing the target to assist in aiming. All targets should all be the same. If they can judge it by eyeballing it, then ok. Otherwise no.

NO it is not. The target has not been physically changed. For the targets to be truly the same for every competitor, disallowing diopters means some competitors will not be shooting at the "same" targets as those with perfect eyes according to your logic.

Since the competition I shoot in requires the use of iron sights of period type and allows diopters to be able to see them, I'm ok with diopters and no magnification. If it ever goes to "no diopters", I'll quit. There's no point in attempting to shoot when you can't see the sights.

 

[Nor Cal Mikie]

1. Because to them even if it takes cheating, they are the one people should/will look up to. The sad part is we do honor them unless we know the truth.

If someone is cheating and observed, the observer needs to protest. If you let it go, it will continue.

Sounds exactly like today's American politics.