• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

Thoughts on shorter barrels (or…Stop me from my blaspheme!)

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
1,231
Reaction score
2,055
Location
Central Texas
I have a Zoli .54 1803 that I dearly love…sorta.

Had a relative on the Corps of Discovery, the time period I am focusing in on to do some living history is 1805-1810 in the mountain west.

Got some great guns that fit the time period. And I have this 1803 in a good piece of wood that is a .54 and has a US made lock.

What’s not to love? Well, two things. First this long barrel is kinda heavy and doesn’t balance well, it doesn’t carry well either…I can live with all that. But the other issue is the bore, or barrel not sure which, is curved to the right. The rifle shoots 2” groups at 50 yards…but even with the front sight as far right as I can get it and the rear sight as far left, it still hits 4” right.

Less than Optimal.

So, in a whiskey inspired moment, it occurred to me that shortening the barrel MIGHT fix the POI issues, and definitely would correct the weight/balance issue. Plus…the originals were known to burst at the muzzle, so it’s a historical remedy, so to speak. Genious!

See the pics below. I’ve marked on the barrel where I would cut, and also right in front of the ramrod pipe.

This leaves me 25” of barrel. Anyone shot a .54 with a 25” barrel? I have a .62 smoothie Caywood Chiefs gun that measures 28” and she shoots better than me…so I think I’m on solid ground.

Opinions? Experience? Burn me at the stake?

A6C82032-E0F0-450D-86A1-883A77FA7C65.jpeg
7C7831B3-1324-44F4-A49F-DCD9F5B7CA54.jpeg
176B29F2-C44E-4888-96A8-AA175399D345.jpeg
 
bend the barrel. after eliminating all human error. shot from a bench, have someone else try a group ,ect. if still off, bend dont cut. [ not easy to put back] just 2 cents worth of no sense

Only issue there is the metal rib under the barrel, it won’t take kindly to what will need to be done to the barrel.

I hunt hogs and deer a lot here in Texas, so having this thing shorter will be handy. We also are canoeing more now and it should be fun for those trips too.

I discussed bending it with a couple of local professionals. It’s an all day guessing game that may or may not turn out well…and there is the issue of the rib.
 
easy way to verify where and if the barrel is bowed is to epoxy a cheap laser pointer on the tang with a small dab, easy to remove with a hot gun later. with the beam intersecting the rear sight and the front sight.
with the barrel sitting plumb on a table you can run a square along the barrel with a rule intercepting the beam will show exactly where the bow is and how much the barrel is bent. mark and reverse bend .
on the other hand i have a .54 with a 22 inch barrel that bellows like an elephant and shoots like a laser. it is so accurate it tends to be boring.
 
Is the bore concentric? Most barrels now are bored first and then planed or turned so the bore is concentric, but not so long ago barrels were already more or less shaped on the outside and then bored. It was not uncommon to have some run-out. Douglas barrels were famous for this. Standard procedure was to orient the run-out uphill, so the windage would be correct and elevation could be adjusted with the height of the sights. However, if somebody put the barrel on with the run-out in the horizontal plane, windage would be difficult to correct.

You might pull the breech plug and have a look in there to check. If there is any run-out, it would be visible at the breech. If it is a problem due to run-out, which is admittedly unlikely, cutting the barrel won’t fix it.

As for cutting the barrel, I wouldn’t do it but it’s your rifle, and there is historical precedent. We know that the white frontiersmen typically preferred long barrels, and that 1803 would have been considered a short, compact rifle as issued, in its day. However, cut-down rifles do exist.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
I love my short, handy rifles and smoothbore. Easy to carry all day, as accurate as I need them, and much easier to slide cased under the back seat my truck. Of course I am a hunter, not a dress up kind of guy.
I have a .54 Renegade that carries and kills like lightning, 26” barrel. A smoothbore flinty of unknown heritage with a 24” barrel, .69 cal or 14ga. With the jug choke it shoots a nice tight group at 25yds. And my newest flint is a Pedersoli Scout with a 27” barrel, about 6 lbs and a dream to carry. I am not a big guy at 5’9”, and as I approach 70,I realize that I carry much more than I shoot. Don’t be afraid to make that gun fit you better.
That being said, if you are careful and take great care not to overdue it, you should be able to straighten a muzzleloader barrel pretty easily. I saw it done in the repair dept at T/C many times when a gun would come in for repair with just the issues you mentioned.
Your gun, your choice.
 

Attachments

  • 46D5797D-0776-43A1-849C-A03439586B5E.jpeg
    46D5797D-0776-43A1-849C-A03439586B5E.jpeg
    98.4 KB · Views: 57
  • EA6F6436-0AD7-4CE0-83F9-4DDE0419943D.jpeg
    EA6F6436-0AD7-4CE0-83F9-4DDE0419943D.jpeg
    121.5 KB · Views: 63
  • FD83C348-BFEF-4B62-818C-B1587C24B5ED.jpeg
    FD83C348-BFEF-4B62-818C-B1587C24B5ED.jpeg
    251.6 KB · Views: 61
If it was a fowler I would bend the barrel, rifle with an under rib, file the muzzle so that gas escapes first on the right side. This will force the bullet to go left. Britsmoothy was a big proponent of this.

My contention is that the fancy filing on the muzzles of original guns was to achieve impact at point of aim YMMV.

And as someone who would like to have an 1803 someday I would hate to see that one cut off.
 
I've got a couple of 24" 54s. One is extremely accurate with roundball, the other I haven't shot yet. The Lyman loading manual shows you don't give up much in velocity either.

I'd cut it.
 
Of course it depends on what the OP bought the gun for in the first place.

If it was to have a replica of a gun that went west with Lewis and Clark I would say don't cut it, either try to fix it, let someone else try to fix it, or sell it to some one who appreciates the history.

If it is just to have something to hit POA, then cut it. But that is no guarantee of fixing the problem if you do not know what the problem is. Could be the muzzle crowning is off already which I have seen before, but may be other.
 
It's a modern reproduction. Do what you want to it to turn it into something you like. Whatever you do to it will have been done to an original by someone somewhere back in the time period you refer to. Personally, I like short barrels. They don't bump into things as often.

Edit: Get the inspiration with the whisky but leave the hacksaw alone. I know a guy who learned the hard way.
 
Last edited:
I'm a believer in doing what one must to have a gun that fits and suits the owner. I wouldn't hesitate to have the barrel cut if I just couldn't bond with it otherwise. Is it possible for you to replace the barrel with a shorter - with no issues - tube? Just me cogitating when I shouldn't be.
 
bend the barrel. after eliminating all human error. shot from a bench, have someone else try a group ,ect. if still off, bend dont cut. [ not easy to put back] although i never bent a barrel with an under rib. might separate? anyone done this??
If the rib is attached with screws, bend away. If not, install some countersunk screws at intervals then bend away. It probably won’t take much bending/flexing to fix the problem.
If that doesn’t work you still have the option of cutting the barrel. But the barrel shortening may only lessen the problem, not eliminate it.
 
Last edited:
I have a Zoli .54 1803 that I dearly love…sorta.

Had a relative on the Corps of Discovery, the time period I am focusing in on to do some living history is 1805-1810 in the mountain west.

Got some great guns that fit the time period. And I have this 1803 in a good piece of wood that is a .54 and has a US made lock.

What’s not to love? Well, two things. First this long barrel is kinda heavy and doesn’t balance well, it doesn’t carry well either…I can live with all that. But the other issue is the bore, or barrel not sure which, is curved to the right. The rifle shoots 2” groups at 50 yards…but even with the front sight as far right as I can get it and the rear sight as far left, it still hits 4” right.

Less than Optimal.

So, in a whiskey inspired moment, it occurred to me that shortening the barrel MIGHT fix the POI issues, and definitely would correct the weight/balance issue. Plus…the originals were known to burst at the muzzle, so it’s a historical remedy, so to speak. Genious!

See the pics below. I’ve marked on the barrel where I would cut, and also right in front of the ramrod pipe.

This leaves me 25” of barrel. Anyone shot a .54 with a 25” barrel? I have a .62 smoothie Caywood Chiefs gun that measures 28” and she shoots better than me…so I think I’m on solid ground.

Opinions? Experience? Burn me at the stake?

View attachment 139173View attachment 139174View attachment 139175
I would contact Bobby Hoyt about it. He could do a relining job, but correcting a barrel that is bored off center may be beyond even his magical talents.
A phone call will cost you nothing,
 
If it was a fowler I would bend the barrel, rifle with an under rib, file the muzzle so that gas escapes first on the right side. This will force the bullet to go left. Britsmoothy was a big proponent of this.

My contention is that the fancy filing on the muzzles of original guns was to achieve impact at point of aim YMMV.

And as someone who would like to have an 1803 someday I would hate to see that one cut off.
I agree. I believe this was know as regulating the barrels. It was done often on double rifles to obtain the same point of impact at a certain range. Usually 50 yds.
 
Back
Top