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This old gun !

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Folks, Out of the blue an old friend from Florida showed up at my door in Illinois to give me a gun he found in Fla. Percussion octagon barrel .The top flat back of the sights is marked M. Dickson ,over J.J. Gilmore Louisville Ky. My opinion is that the barrel is original. That is open to your advice. My question is ,did these gun makers only use back action locks?
Pictures to follow as soon as I get my hands to stop shaking.
Thank you
John
 
There was a gunsmith by the name of James J. Gilmore that worked in Louisville, Kentucky from 1848 to 1870 per American Gunsmiths by Frank Sellers.

Back action locks were very popular after 1850.

Awaiting pictures.
 
This is a photo of the muzzle . What do you think? I'm having a hard time guessing at a caliber with seven sides what is the measuring parameters ? The best I get is 11mm I have only seen one photo of a muzzle with the stars and dots and now can't find that. Is this really a Whitworth? More photos of the rifle tomorrow
IMG-0165.jpg
 
Congratulations on your acquisition! That was kind of your friend.

There are a lot of mid-19th century percussion rifles, both small bore and heavy "plains rifles," with back-action locks. I think they were kind of a fad in the late percussion era.

We have a very plain old rifle in the family, marked "W.F. SETTLE" and "GLASGOW," which I am sure refers to Glasgow, Kentucky. It has a back-action lock.

You can gently use the smooth shanks of drill bits as plug gauges to get an approximate measure of bore size, without dismounting the barrel. A set of fractional bits in addition to a set of letter-gauge bits will give a good range of sizes. These ought to get you a couple of inches down into the bore, beneath any coning of the muzzle, if there is any. I suppose an additional set of metric bits might also help, for any in-between sizes. Just mike the diameter of the shank that fits best. Be careful inserting and removing the bit shanks so they go in and come out as straight as possible. A lot of antique barrels were made from softer metal than is used now.

The decorated muzzle, with stars and dots, was not uncommon. I don't know if it was purely decorative, or if it might have been associated with a superstition.

We are looking forward to learning more about your rifle!

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
There was a gunsmith by the name of James J. Gilmore that worked in Louisville, Kentucky from 1848 to 1870 per American Gunsmiths by Frank Sellers.
Yes, and he was indeed partnered with a Moses Dickson through out most, if not all of that time.
They usually outsourced the lock to a separate white smith and they are usually marked near the hammer. Frequently "Glouster" or "C. Baker", I can't state this as a thing that happened 100% of the time, Gunsmiths being an independent and quirky lot.

My question is ,did these gun makers only use back action locks?
All of the ones I have seen or been able to track down on the interweb have back action locks. This includes one that is in my families procession that I am not far enough up the family tree to have inherited but have had the pleasure of seeing. However refer to earlier comment about gunsmiths:ghostly:. Does yours have any marking on the Lock Plate? Is the bore at the muzzle larger than the calibre? You could tell this with a small flashlight, looking down the barrel you'd see a slight widening about 1/2 to 1 inch down, apologies if you already know that, being pedantic is a habit left over from before retirement and, of course, because I am

Mad Michael.
 
Here are photos of the rifle. The barrel is 36 inches. The bore is(?) .451. The stock is cracked at the wrist and lock. The trigger guard pin is buggered up. Stock has shrunken in places.
 

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Further photos. I anyone would like a different view please ask as I would really like to here your opinions.
John
 

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Looks like a nice old 1840 ish flint gun converted to percussion. The muzzle looks shortened a bit to expose fresh rifling at the muzzle , as needed. I like the flat faced lock plate , and the patch box is quite fancy .. She could'a been made most anywhere. East coast area , Pittsburgh , Pa. , Ohio , Down South , Appalachian region Unless someone can recognize the patch box , I dunno. ........oldwood
 
Looks like a nice old 1840 ish flint gun converted to percussion. The muzzle looks shortened a bit to expose fresh rifling at the muzzle , as needed. I like the flat faced lock plate , and the patch box is quite fancy .. She could'a been made most anywhere. East coast area , Pittsburgh , Pa. , Ohio , Down South , Appalachian region Unless someone can recognize the patch box , I dunno. ........oldwood
OldWood, thanks. So , I shouldn't be confused with that bore style
and the type of stock?
John
 
When I first began my journey in muzzleloading , 1970 , in central Pa. , there were old guys that had collections of originals. Occasionally , I saw an old school original , big bore , above .45 , long rifle. But most were rifles just like the one you showed. Some were signed by old school makers like Dreppert , Pannabecker , Boyer , and a host of others. Majority of bore sizes were .36 to .40 , and all were round ball rifles. Your's is typical.............oldwood
 
When did the abbreviation Ky begin being used?

Post Office started in 1963, for mail sent before that date the State name was written out completely

If the barrel markings are post 1963, it may indicate the work done to the barrel time frame

I would pitch the stock and patch box, the tear drop washers, and make it plain and make it a shooter, and I would file off the stamping on the barrel
 
Folks, Out of the blue an old friend from Florida showed up at my door in Illinois to give me a gun he found in Fla. Percussion octagon barrel .The top flat back of the sights is marked M. Dickson ,over J.J. Gilmore Louisville Ky. My opinion is that the barrel is original. That is open to your advice. My question is ,did these gun makers only use back action locks?
Pictures to follow as soon as I get my hands to stop shaking.
Thank you
John
Obviously a Flint conversion from the holes in the Side Lock plate where the feather spring was fiited. (NOT back action). The 7 groove rifling is interesting. Let's see some range results,but with those cracks keep the powder charge very low. Just enough to get the ball to your target.. OLD DOG..
 
That sure is an interesting old rifle!

I am inclined to agree with @Grenadier1758 regarding the percussion lock, and replacement of the mainspring. It looks to me as if the stabilizing pin on the side of the new mainspring was in a slightly different location from the original, so the gunsmith drilled a new hole for it and left the old hole open.

That is a very unusual lock. The hammer is elegant, but of a very unusual form. The shape of the lock plate is reminiscent of some early flint locks, but the plate is dead flat with no ornamentation or markings of any kind. By the time original percussion rifles were being built, "factory made" and "Warranted" locks were commonplace. I'm wondering if that lock might have been put together from assorted parts, on a "shop made" plate. Another thing is that it has two side nails, which is usual for flint locks, but much less common for percussion rifles.

Very perplexing.

I would agree that the barrel has been shortened a few inches. The forward ramrod pipe overlaps the nosecap slightly, while we would expect it to be several inches back. I would conclude that the barrel and the wood forend were shortened, and the nosecap refitted to the shortened stock.

The question might be, "Which end of the barrel was shortened?" A lot of old rifles had more or less erosion at the breech, inside and out, so they were shortened from the back end and a new breechplug was fitted. The barrel was then moved back in the stock. If the barrel from this rifle could be taken off, turned over, and examined, we might find some old dovetails hammered flat, to show where the tenons had been moved. I just have a feeling that whoever shortened the barrel would have been less likely to ornament the muzzle than the original builder.

One last thought is that the cheek piece appears rather crudely carved. It just doesn't match that elegant patchbox.

Regarding the abbreviation of "Kentucky," I have few facts to offer. @Davey Boy has advised us that the USPS adopted official state name abbreviation in 1963. I didn't know when that occurred, but now we do! However, I do know writers back in the day used abbreviations, and I have noted the use of a small, underlined letter in superscript, as on the "y" in that barrel's marking, in some very early 19th century writing. I would not know how to use that for dating the rifle, though.

There is much to ponder with this rifle. Thanks, @Celticstoneman , for presenting it!

Notchy Bob
 
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