Broken Mortimer stock

[deerstalkert]

just got a quote from Pedersoli for a new stock . 850.00 delivered to my trembling little paws. Ain't happening. i will go out and cut down a tree and chisel a stock for that kind of money.
I saw a beautiful striped blank on another site for 500.00 Hmmmmmmmmm.
have some rawhide soaking so i guess that's next. i could buy a Kibler kit for 850.00 for petes sake.

 

[excess650]

Is it broken sooooooo badly that it can't be repaired?

 

[deermanok]

Hope they're throwing in a table and chairs for that kind of money.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Any pictures?

 

[Artificer]

just got a quote from Pedersoli for a new stock . 850.00 delivered to my trembling little paws. Ain't happening. i will go out and cut down a tree and chisel a stock for that kind of money.
I saw a beautiful striped blank on another site for 500.00 Hmmmmmmmmm.
have some rawhide soaking so i guess that's next. i could buy a Kibler kit for 850.00 for petes sake.

Is this the replacement for the one you were talking about cracking through the wrist?

Gus

 

[deerstalkert]

i glued it last night and am going to wrap it with raw hide. just until i can replace it. hope to Elk hunt with it this fall.
the new crack is just 1/2 inch above the first repair and runs just like the first. am thinking just a bad grain run through the wrist.
these are the new crack. the first crack is visible where i repaired it .

 

[deerstalkert]

original break.

 

[2 shots]

dont just glue it , reinforce it with a dowel, threaded rod , ect. it looks like you could hide it under the trigger guard. would last a long time if you use epoxy not glue.

 

[deerstalkert]

dont just glue it , reinforce it with a dowel, threaded rod , ect. it looks like you could hide it under the trigger guard. would last a long time if you use epoxy not glue.

did just that long screw under the tg. the glue i use has never failed me and it held on the first break.

 

[Artificer]

original break.

May I be so bold as to recommend instead of gluing, which doesn't seem to be working, to do something that will strengthen the wrist and ensure you can go Elk Hunting with it and it won't break when you do?

BTW, I repaired a far more damaged and actually shattered wrist on my Pedersoli Brown Bess Carbine doing much of what I'm about to describe and no problems ever again even when shooting those punkin' size round balls.

Since it has cracked in two pieces rather cleanly, I would drill into both pieces to form a long hole so you can use Accra Glas Gel and a piece of 1/4 inch diameter brass "all thread" rod as internal strengthening. (I had to use two 1/8" rods on the Bess to get around each side of the "Thumbpiece" or Escutcheon Screw that goes vertically through the wrist.) I prefer Brass because it is closer to similarity of wood, but you can also use Iron/Steel all thread rod.

By drilling (inside and parallel to the wrist) from the crack towards the front and drilling from the crack towards the rear and at least a couple of inches into the heavy portion of the buttstock, the hole will never be seen and you don't have to worry about messing up the breech inletting to drill through there for the rod.

I also used what I call an "Internal Dove Tail" with it. I originally got the idea from a "dutchman" repair used on furniture. You sort of wallow out the inside of each hole a little so it stays close to the same diameter near the crack, but it gets larger and sort of cone shaped internally on both pieces. Something like an hour glass laying on it's side and the center/small portion of the hour glass is centered on the crack, though you don't waller the wood out near as much as an hour glass on each side of the crack.

If you are interested, I have more tips on how to do it.

Gus

 

[deerstalkert]

Gus, thank you for the ideas and expertise. it seems you were looking over my shoulder last night as i repaired the Mortimer.
i used almost exactly your plan. i am discovering that the wood in this stock is brittle . almost like a salt soaked stock i worked on years ago. strange but it is what it is.
I am going to give the Mortimer a vacation for a while and find a blank i can whittle down to fit. am in the middle of a .32 southern mountain rifle just now so the Mortimer will have to wait.

 

[Artificer]

Gus, thank you for the ideas and expertise. it seems you were looking over my shoulder last night as i repaired the Mortimer.
i used almost exactly your plan. i am discovering that the wood in this stock is brittle . almost like a salt soaked stock i worked on years ago. strange but it is what it is.
I am going to give the Mortimer a vacation for a while and find a blank i can whittle down to fit. am in the middle of a .32 southern mountain rifle just now so the Mortimer will have to wait.

Well, maybe replacing a lot of the wood inside the wrist with Accra Glass will take care of the brittle stock problem. I've done this on birch stocks with modern guns where I cut out so much wood, the owner joked the original outside of the stock is almost like a veneer, though I really didn't cut out that much wood. COMPLETELY took care of the weak wood problem and that was on a .30-06 rifle that was shot a LOT after I repaired it.

I sure understand priorities, but if you would like to try it later on, let me know and I will go into far more detail how to do it.

You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[Archer 756]

Never us epoxy Epoxy will see seam epoxy always need a void Hide glue pernitrates where epoxy does not

 

[excess650]

In that it is already glued, I would pull the barrel and drill from the breach face down through the wrist and into the butt. Epoxy a piece of rod10-12" long and it will never break at the wrist again. Yes, you will have to bed the breech, but that might be an improvement in that this is a hunting rifle.

 

[Artificer]

Folks, I often see suggestions not to use epoxy in applications like this. I have to politely, but for the most part, strongly disagree.

Epoxy failures are most commonly attributed to one of three things:

1. Using the WRONG Epoxy. Most 5 minute Epoxies are worthless for stock work, especially where sheer strength is needed in a job like this. I've used Devcon Clear 2 Ton Epoxy with a LONG set up time of between 20 to 30 minutes for decades and that gives great sheer strength and excellent filling capability.

2. Improper mixing. Oh, the stories I have about both epoxies and glass bedding compounds failures that were either not mixed in the factory recommended ratios OR were not properly and thoroughly mixed before use. It ain't rocket science to use the correct ratio's and thoroughly mix the compounds, but way too many folks get in a hurry and don't do it correctly. I spend at least two to five minutes with a Palate Knife or small Putty Knife mixing epoxy by scraping some up, folding it on top of the rest, and generally thoroughly mixing. I actually scrape/fold/mix the entire amount at least two or three times.

3. Improper preparation of the surfaces and especially with wood. Wood (or any surfaces to be joined) HAS to be clean and the surfaces need to be at least somewhat rough or the epoxy won't stick properly. Normally with a broken wrist, the wood on each side is already rough from the break. To clean it, use Acetone with a tooth brush or at least a clean rag, because when it evaporates, it leaves NOTHING on the wood that can negatively affect the Epoxy.

Gus

 

[Notchy Bob]

I have used epoxy in various woodworking and instrument repair projects. I agree with everything @Artificer stated in post #15, above. I would add that it is generally agreed that epoxy, and most other adhesives, have a shelf life. If you don't remember when you bought it, it may be a good idea to replace it with a fresh supply for an important project like this. Some years ago, I also started marking glue containers with the date of purchase, which helps me keep track of time on the shelf.

One other point that Gus made, which I would like to reinforce, is to get epoxy with the longest "pot life" possible. This refers to the duration between the time the glue is mixed and the time it begins to set. This allows you time to mix the components thoroughly and to get the pieces to be glued properly lined up, joined, and clamped. In my experience, the slower-setting epoxies also end up being stronger than the five-minute varieties, although this could very well be related to time spent in proper mixing.

This has been a very informative thread. Good luck with that repair, @deerstalkert !

Notchy Bob

 

[Rudall]

these are the new crack. the first crack is visible where i repaired it .

Could they both not have been made invisible?

 

[FishDFly]

This post is one of those that should be made a sticky, someone else will break stock and need this information.

 

[4575wcf]

I use original Acraglas (red box) for any stock repair I expect to hold. The Gel (green box) is much nicer to work with but unless there is a way to thin it that I don't know about it won't get to the bottom of a crack. Once the Acraglas enters the chemical mix stage it heats slightly and goes so runny it is incredible. Properly colored to match the wood, the repair is all but invisible. The COVID shut the supply down for a good long while though, my shotgun build was held up for months because of seasoning checks, waiting on the stuff to get back in stock. Shame on Pedersoli, for their lack of customer support. Considering the amount of money you had to dish out for the Mortimer, they should have supplied that replacement stock for free.

 

[4575wcf]

James V. Howe covered this particular stock repair very thoroughly in "The Modern Gunsmith". As others have stated you drill down from the back of the tang cutout into the pistol grip area as deep as you safely can. Then you install a big hex head lag screw into the hole, relieve it on the uphill side so it will draw the cracks together, fill the break with Acraglas and draw the bolt up tight and then some. Then you glass over the screw and bed the tang. You'll never break it there again. Howe did not have Acraglas in his era, but we do.