Defarbed

[user 49399]

I once bought a "Case" Bowie knife at an auction for $5. I was expecting to pay a lot more for it and wondered why no else bid on it but me. When I first looked at it I just knew it was a "Case" and it had a mid 19th century look to it and was going to be paired up with a "Hawken" rifle.

When I got it home in better light, I could see the first letter was a capital c, but the other four letters were just scribbles that only somewhat looked like ase. On the opposite side was the dreaded "made in China ". I gave the knife away.

 

[TFoley]

Agreed.
The first thing I notice is if the "original" is still in firing condition, since that brings the most money, that means less damage to it, so more details should be visible and usually either the forger messes up something, or the "expert" selling the item missed something...whether that was a "convenient" error or the person is not as "expert" as they think...well....
.
On another forum there was an "original" ACW revolver that somebody had removed any proof marks and modern marks such as the makers name, country of make, and etc. BUT..., the stamps were done wrong on the repro.

Not only is the P out of alignment, but the originals did not put the apostrophe in the name...,

View attachment 60443

LD

Better effort than 'CLOTS PATENT', though............

 

[FishDFly]

Defarbing seems kinda dumb.

If it's so important not to be labeled, why did the makers of early rifles sign them on top of the barrel? Only way to authenticate some of the old rifles.

Why do the House Brothers sign their rifles? Are Kibler rifles marked?

See a lot of posts asking, what do I have here?

If folks were not dumb, labeling like "Black Powder only" would not be needed. It's there for a reason.

At some time in the future. how are folks going to order parts for things if they have been defarbed and the maker is not known?

 

[toot]

I have many repro. single shots, flintlock, and I bought them used and all have had MADE IN ITALY, BLACK POWDER ONLY, DEAWFILED off of the guns, WHY? that is the nature of the beast! it doesn't change any thing, just in the owners mind!

 

[andy52]

I wish the modern manufactures would just put the "Warnings ETC." on the bottom of the barrels out of sight. I'm working a kit GPR and have spent hours trying to make the stock look authentic, it would be nice if it didn't have all the garbage on the barrel.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Defarbing...with time and money being spent which we seem to have less of these days does such a thing really matter?

 

[appalichian hunter]

Actually I speak from a civil war reenactors point of view, the de-farb adds to the over all impression when doing a presentation, just like proper inspector stampings on leather gear , It allows the spectators the opportunity to see a close representation of the original weapons and gear issued to the solider. The secret is to let those viewing the presentation know what has been done to the equipment, to present a adequate portrayal, for example why does one research certain materials and use linen thread for clothing it is all in how deep you want to go into history and its representations.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

There is a sect among the Collector Culture that dambs anyone defarbing, claiming they’re trying to make fakes.

This just ain’t so.

Some find the conspicuous and awkward barrel markings from the Italian, Jap, and Spanish guns a serious eyesore and distract from appearances during living history events.

 

[Auldjin]

I would not like to comment on the visibility of markings, but I can certainly see the need to tone down modern blueing.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

"Black Powder Only" Legalese for you should have known better...

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Some find the conspicuous and awkward barrel markings from the Italian, Jap, and Spanish guns a serious eyesore and distract from appearances during living history events.

Unfortunately, that often includes the removal of the Italian stamped serial number. I get it BUT...

"But I [moved the serial number/put my driver's license number/had my name engraved] on a spot below the stock line on the barrel", I hear a lot from some folks who defarbed their piece...,

So the majority of Law Enforcement Officers these days are not "into" guns, and so..., they are thus not into anything that's a historic repro. Out of 1500 sworn officers in my county..., I know of three including me, that would know to pull the barrel on a musket, rifle, or ACW piece to double check for that moved serial number or other marking on that defarbed piece. So figure in any police agency with less than 500 officers that NONE of them would know where to look. Meaning that the recovered, stolen, $900 - $1300 + dollar Pedersoli [add specific gun name here] isn't going to be returned to the owner.

LD

 

[springfield art]

Would someone please teach me what is meant when a gun/barrel is ”defarbed” Thanks!

"Farb" means 'far be it from authentic'; Yes, removing modern markings and 'aging' a bit will qualify as 'defarbing'...

 

[springfield art]

The only thing I will take off a gun is cheap looking decorative markings, like the "engraving" on the lock of my Traditions derringer. Markings pertinent to the gun's manufacture get left on. When we're all long dead and gone and some dude in 2218 winds up with my Pedersoli Bess (assuming people are still "allowed" to own guns then) it will be a genuine antique in its own right, and I think he'll appreciate being able to see the markings telling him the maker, date, and serial number, so he has at least some information on the gun's history. Of course, some reenactor may take possession of it between when I croak and that future time and "defarb" it, in which case 2218 dude is screwed, but at least I did my part.

Good, thoughtful comments!

 

[VA Guy]

I wish the modern manufactures would just put the "Warnings ETC." on the bottom of the barrels out of sight. I'm working a kit GPR and have spent hours trying to make the stock look authentic, it would be nice if it didn't have all the garbage on the barrel.

Talk to the lawyers about that one...

 

[Artificer]

I always tell folks, try a screw thread or two, if it's metric, then it is a "de-farb" or a fake.

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

I always enjoyed the old Museum under the St. Louis Arch. One alcove had the exhibit for the Corps of Discovery. Naturally they had some of the guns on display and one of them was an 1803 Harper's Ferry Rifle that was bolted to the wall. I think hey were avoiding some of the questions that were never really answered and were going with what would be representative of the firearms carried. As you looked at that rifle. One could see the engraving on the barrel. Black Powder Only, Antonio Zoli 58 Caliber. No defarbing in that Museum. In the new museum, I didn't see the Harper's Ferry.

 

[HotelBravo]

Seems odd that some re-enactors need to "age" their firearms to look 150 years old, yet dress in uniforms with shiney buttons and cloth free from tears, fading, moth damage and wear that would be found in 'original' old clothing of the period.

The crew of the CSS Hunley, the Confederate submarine, were guarded by a Confederate Honor Guard made up of re-enactors who wore realistic clothing that you describe. They conveyed the remains to their burial ground in a very moving and well rehearsed ceremony, with period weapons. I was not "into" black powder back then, so I did not know if the weapons they carried were original or not.

 

[Marse Swank]

As a reenactor myself who owns “defarbed” guns, there’s a bit more to it. The pedersoli reproductions (and those pedersoli recently bought out) are just an OK carbon copy of originals. The stocks are usually way too heavy and have the wrong finish. The hardware is typically left bright when in some cases it was armory blued. I’ve replaced sight blades on muskets because originals were brass. The list goes on. Here’s the point: just like any other hobby, it’s done to perfect an impression for a person’s own enjoyment. Plus, it actually adds value to the piece within the hobby, far from destroying any value. Trust me, with the parts the Italians use in the locks, most of these guns will be non-functional in 100 years or less without full rebuilds, so worrying about changing the makers mark on these is laughable.

 

[andy52]

I always enjoyed the old Museum under the St. Louis Arch. One alcove had the exhibit for the Corps of Discovery. Naturally they had some of the guns on display and one of them was an 1803 Harper's Ferry Rifle that was bolted to the wall. I think hey were avoiding some of the questions that were never really answered and were going with what would be representative of the firearms carried. As you looked at that rifle. One could see the engraving on the barrel. Black Powder Only, Antonio Zoli 58 Caliber. No defarbing in that Museum. In the new museum, I didn't see the Harper's Ferry.

That's amusing in two ways, first that they would hang a repro on the wall and second Meriwether Lewis ordered the Harpers Ferry rifle but they weren't delivered in time for the trip. The corp was issued 1795 Springfield's.

 

[toot]

instead of spending large sums of $, just buy an original peice?