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The decline of .45 caliber ML single shot pistols and rifles....

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As someone who likes a variety of Cap & Ball revolvers, ML rifles, ML shotguns, and ML single(or double) shot pistols...I've noticed a steady decline in newer (past the 70's & 80's) produced .45 caliber ML firearms. CVA, T/C, Traditions, and others used to make some nice ML firearms in .45 cal.

I know Pedersoli still makes ML rifles and pistols in .45 cal. (and you can still get a Philadelphia in .45cal from Deer Creek & Traditions) but now .50cal. is more common. I happen to love .45cal. ML pistols, had several before 2014, all older units.

What has changed?
 
Chiappa makes a .45 Napoleon Lepage pistol. Mind you I havent seen one since I got this one from a dealer in Montreal.
20190606_172806.jpg
 
As a person wanting more than a 45(back in the 80s) I looked for them and they weren't that common unless you ordered them. Ordering back them wasn't as common as it is now a days when we order allot via internet. I f I remember correct it seemed like the larger calibers were considerably more expensive than the 45s. My thought was for hunting wanting a little more edge, especially if I went for something a little bigger than deer.

Also the unmentionables were starting to be more popular especially for those not wanting to get serious about muzzle loaders but wanted the ML advantage for special hunts. Since the unmentionables used the sabot, the 45 bullets were pretty much as big as you could get then in a practical sense, you needed larger than 45 to have room for bullet and sabot so 50 was quickly becoming the standard. At least that's the way I saw it as I remember.

I saw 54s back then and they were not so common. My thought was who would want and odd caliber like that but look today. It one of the more popular calibers for hunting or at least for those who will possibly hunt bigger than deer game.
 
The .45 is the most common caliber for line matches. As the population declines there are less line shooters for line matches.

A lot of folks will try line matches and when they are not instant winners on the leaser board they quit. They do not put forth the effort to become better shooters.

Also a lot of shooting places and black powder clubs have been shut down, thus less places to shoot.

When you read here, folks pushing wompability, bigger is better, especially for hunting..

Fads or what is popular changes with the times.
 
What has changed?

I don't know, but variation in calibers is one of the things that makes muzzleloaders attractive.
Especially odd calibers.
I'd love to have a .36 Hawken, a .50 army revolver even one in .36,
shotguns in every gauge.
Bring back 3/4" barrels too.
I am always saddened when I see a beautiful rifle and the caliber is .50

Yearn to be different !
 
As mooman, said my belief is that the in lines has took over and the 50 cal. is standard because of the sabot and availability of different types of applicable 45 cal. pistol bullets used in those. My late father used one of those with a 100 gr. load of pyrodex and a saboted 45 cal. hollow point pistol bullet it was devastating on the deer he shot. Lets face it our traditional type weapons are a oddity in most of the muzzle loading hunting circles. We run in a select group and are the minority. As discussed in other posts it is driven by economics, the ability to hunt a extra season and ease of care are the issues that drive these weapons. Add to that the hunting shows where hunters are using muzzle loaders they are always in lines Jim Shockley comes to mind.
 
The .45 is the most common caliber for line matches. As the population declines there are less line shooters for line matches.

A lot of folks will try line matches and when they are not instant winners on the leaser board they quit. They do not put forth the effort to become better shooters.

Also a lot of shooting places and black powder clubs have been shut down, thus less places to shoot.

When you read here, folks pushing wompability, bigger is better, especially for hunting..

Fads or what is popular changes with the times.

Not in these parts, .40 is the most common caliber for match. The .40 shoots such a flat trajectory, I run 40 grains of fff at 25,50,100 yard targets. Now if I could just hold the darn rifle steady

The .50 is very popular as well
 
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I don't know, but variation in calibers is one of the things that makes muzzleloaders attractive.
Especially odd calibers.
I'd love to have a .36 Hawken, a .50 army revolver even one in .36,
shotguns in every gauge.
Bring back 3/4" barrels too.
I am always saddened when I see a beautiful rifle and the caliber is .50

Yearn to be different !

There is nothing so sweet handling as a Southern Mountain rifle of .30-.36 cal with a 3/4”x38” barrel.
 
Yes I like the different cals. also my squirrel rifle is a Dixie mountain rifle .32 long slim and actually a very nice rifle for a production gun it also can be either flint or percussion, and two custom 50 cal. rifles the Isaac Haines was the first one then came a lefty rifle bought at Ft. Frederick market faire walnut stocked German silver metal this rifle is a shooter. next a swivel breech Leonard Day it is a 50 , but the beauties are a 62 Andreas Albrecht left hand Iorn mounted rifle and the 20 gauge fowler also a lefty these are my go to weapons. Recently picked up a very nice percussion rifle hand forged barrel will date to around 1870 heavy barrel and the bore is not too good it seems to be around 40 cal. after some more research on this gun I will decide if I will send it to Mr. Hoyt to re-bore or perhaps fresh out to 42 or 44 cal. good solid rifle just poor bore .
 
I think in the factory produced world, calibers that are popular are what continues to be made. Odd calibers with less following die off. It's just common business practice to stop producing, or at least curtail production on lesser products. Add to that in the hunting world, many states have the minimum caliber allowed for deer right around the .45 cal. A lot of hunters want more than the minimum caliber, even if it's just a perceived advantage to have bigger.
 
Yes I like the different cals. also my squirrel rifle is a Dixie mountain rifle .32 long slim and actually a very nice rifle for a production gun it also can be either flint or percussion, and two custom 50 cal. rifles the Isaac Haines was the first one then came a lefty rifle bought at Ft. Frederick market faire walnut stocked German silver metal this rifle is a shooter. next a swivel breech Leonard Day it is a 50 , but the beauties are a 62 Andreas Albrecht left hand Iorn mounted rifle and the 20 gauge fowler also a lefty these are my go to weapons. Recently picked up a very nice percussion rifle hand forged barrel will date to around 1870 heavy barrel and the bore is not too good it seems to be around 40 cal. after some more research on this gun I will decide if I will send it to Mr. Hoyt to re-bore or perhaps fresh out to 42 or 44 cal. good solid rifle just poor bore .

Bobby does great work, and he is a round ball shooter as well
 
I've gone full circle. Started with a 45, wanted bigger so looked and got a 50 and then a 58 for moose/elk. Then wanted smaller for economic paper shooting and picked up a couple 32s. Then a 36 so I could shoot with a little more umf and still shoot cheap. Now I'm mostly shooting a 45 again. Go figure
 
As someone who likes a variety of Cap & Ball revolvers, ML rifles, ML shotguns, and ML single(or double) shot pistols...I've noticed a steady decline in newer (past the 70's & 80's) produced .45 caliber ML firearms. CVA, T/C, Traditions, and others used to make some nice ML firearms in .45 cal.

I know Pedersoli still makes ML rifles and pistols in .45 cal. (and you can still get a Philadelphia in .45cal from Deer Creek & Traditions) but now .50cal. is more common. I happen to love .45cal. ML pistols, had several before 2014, all older units.

What has changed?
I would tend to think that with sales dropping, the makers of lower cost rifles have reduced their overhead by buying or producing only barrel stock that have the highest sales. Most people now want the 50 or 54 caliber rifles.
 
I've two .45's. A pedersoli rifle and an older cva Kentucky pistol. The finish on the pistol is really dark, almost black. Some scratches but the metal is good. I like both of them and they both shoot well. The Pedersoli is a couple of years old and I think the pistol was made in the 70's or 80's.
 
On the production side of muzzleloader’s the .45 isn’t as popular or available compared to other caliber’s.

On the custom side of things it seems to have a strong showing, even now.

See quite a few .45 shooter’s in my part of the country. Think geographic location has a lot to do with it.

Like back then, states east of the Mississippi seem to trend to smaller caliber’s versus states out west. Historical popularity, size and type of game, terrain and shot distances.

Respectfully, Cowboy
 
I think in the factory produced world, calibers that are popular are what continues to be made.
Are they popular because that is what people want, or are they popular because that is what is offered ?
The AK is the most popular gun in Russia. and the AR is the most popular gun in America.

I think,
"Build it and they will come."

A cow eats corn because that's what the farmer has decided to feed it.

In the muzzleloading world the .50 is most popular because that is what we are given.
30-40 years ago .45 was extremely popular because every gun was offered in it.
Streamlining has shrunk the availability of calibers and increased profits, but the overall market has shrunk as a result.
Now even the custom barrel market is shrinking.

People need to rediscover the joy of hunting something other than deer for a change, and shooting something other than exactly what the guy next to you at the range has.
 
For one,Hunting laws have changed. Out west, the only way a 45 is legal for bear, deer, antelope, is if its shooting a conical. In colorado, my 50cal shooting a patched round ball was outlawed in 2018. I had to rebarrel 2 guns to 54cal to be legal for elk bcuz i shoot patched round ball.
 
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