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What is the proper name for "possibles bag"?

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Huh! I've been shooting muzzleloaders of one sort or another since the 60's and never knew there was so much disagreement over what to call the bag we carry our shooting gear in. I've generally called it my hunting pouch, but sometimes it's my possibles bag. What difference does it make? The purpose of language is communication, and it evolves over time. So long as the person I'm talking to knows what I mean and I've got everything I need, it doesn't matter to me what it's called. Mostly, I use it to carry everything I think I'm likely to need to load, shoot, clean, and possibly troubleshoot and repair my rifle, pistol, or trade gun while I'm far from a source of ammunition, tools, or parts. By the way, I got out of the habit of attaching a patch knife to the strap of my pouch after falling face down once in the woods during a Trapper's Run match. The finish line was 20 yards down hill from the last target and it was a timed event so I was running flat out when I stepped in a boggy spot and my foot stuck. All the way to the ground, all I could think of was that knife hanging in the middle of my chest and the rifle I had been carrying in both hands at "High Port". Took the fall on my forearms, and when I got my breath back one of the first things I did was move that knife and sheath to the pouch itself.
 
I simply call it "My leather bag that holds lead balls, patches, powder measure, extra flints (If flintlock), percussion caps (if percussion), capper (if percussion), flintlock tool, cleaning patches, knife, tomahawk, short starter and period correct mobile phone (😁). For short, I use the simple acronym: LBHLBPPMFFCPKTSS .

It's pronounced: LBHLBPPMFFCPKTSS

The use of the term "Possibles bag" is looking better and better to me.
Ron
 
"Ditty bag". :oops:

I haven't heard that expression for years. My mom used to call her purse a ditty bag. I could never figure out why she called it that because if she was humming a little tune she also said she was humming a ditty. I suspect ditty's must be all kinds of things so they might be something like possibles?

In any case, I like the sound of the phrase, "possibles bag". It brings to mind things that might have been said by some mountain man back in the day.

"Hey Jake. Yaw gots any twine on ye?"
"Hell. I don't know. Take a look in ma possibles bag a' layin o'er thar. I ain't looked in it for moons so it might have some." :ghostly:
 
"Ditty bag". :oops:

I haven't heard that expression for years. My mom used to call her purse a ditty bag. I could never figure out why she called it that because if she was humming a little tune she also said she was humming a ditty. I suspect ditty's must be all kinds of things so they might be something like possibles?

In any case, I like the sound of the phrase, "possibles bag". It brings to mind things that might have been said by some mountain man back in the day.

"Hey Jake. Yaw gots any twine on ye?"
"Hell. I don't know. Take a look in ma possibles bag a' layin o'er thar. I ain't looked in it for moons so it might have some." :ghostly:
Is always heard "ditty bag," used for a man's toiletry kit bag.
 
"Ditty bag". :oops:

I haven't heard that expression for years. My mom used to call her purse a ditty bag. I could never figure out why she called it that because if she was humming a little tune she also said she was humming a ditty. I suspect ditty's must be all kinds of things so they might be something like possibles?

In any case, I like the sound of the phrase, "possibles bag". It brings to mind things that might have been said by some mountain man back in the day.

"Hey Jake. Yaw gots any twine on ye?"
"Hell. I don't know. Take a look in ma possibles bag a' layin o'er thar. I ain't looked in it for moons so it might have some." :ghostly:

Is always heard "ditty bag," used for a man's toiletry kit bag.


Always thought of ditty bag in nautical terms(navy, sailors, etc.), and it does seem that that is the origin and it was then transferred into common usage.

One theory, not reflected in the below article, that sounds most likely to me, given the propensity of soldiers/sailors, everywhere to shorten words for quick conversation, is that it came from the term "commodities" bag used by British Navy during the age of sail, which referred to the tars toiletry items that they often kept in a little bag made of sailcloth and was about the only items of personal possession they had with them on board. Same idea and describes the same thing basically as the Spanish word triques which I posted above.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-dit2.htm
 
Hunting pouch, bullet bag I've used; however ball bag has been mentioned on the Forbe's Campaign of 1754. By the way Washington had commercially 'turned' Philadelphia powderhorns issued to his militia, as well as ball bags created out of heavy linen and hemp thread!
 
Mr. Sears was a seaman, before he became a outdoor writer.

“ Possibly “ the reference too the ditty bag....
 
Using the correct terminology for historic gear is only of interest to re-enactors, and among that group only those who are fairly serious about it.

If a man's only interest is in shooting the guns in one way or another, competition, hunting, casual plinking, then it seems less important, to me. It always puzzles me why those people are even such conversations. All they usually have to offer is rampant speculation, personal experience and armchair imagineering.

Reading through all 4 pages of this thread I find only one post with anything which qualifies as 'evidence' in the form of original quotations, and that was examples of what the bag was actually called in the day, possible bag not one of them.

There are original quotations available which can shed light on the question. It seems "possibles" bag is a legitimate historic term which may have originated in early 19th century, maybe as early as 1830, but not in 18th century. I think "mountain man jargon" is probably a good way to think of it. The problem we have today is not that people are using a term which never existed, which originated with the Buckskinners of the 1970s, or that was invented by some movie scriptwriter. It's that they are applying the legitimate term to the wrong thing.

Rich had it right, I think, it was used for the mountain man's luggage, his suitcase, if you will. Here are some original quotations which seem to bear out what I just described.

_Life in the Far West_, by George Frederick Augustus Ruxton: 1846-47
“For many years after he had deserted his home, La Bonté had cherished the idea of again returning to his country. During this period he had never forgotten his old flame, and many a choice fur he had carefully laid by, intended as a present for Mary Brand; and many a gâge d’ amour of cunning shape and device, worked in stained quills, of porcupine and bright-colored beads---the handiwork of nimble fingered squaws---he had packed in his possible sack for the same destination, hoping a time would come when he might lay them at her feet.”

William Drummond Stewart's fictional book _Edward Warren_, published in 1854 but based on his several years of Rocky mountain experiences during the 1830's, "...my gaudy cottons having confronted the glorious sun until sunk from the contest, were ready to be re-consigned to the possible sack."

And the really important one, with the term used six times and defined by the author in a footnote, page 111.

_Wah-to-yah, and the Taos Trail: Or, Prairie Travel and Scalp dances, with a look at Los Rancheros from muleback and the Rocky mountain camp-fire_, (1846-47), by Lewis Hector Garrard

pg. 111 "On the 8th, we packed our robes, and “possibles” **, and, by eleven o’clock, the wagon, with its two yoke of half-famished oxen attached, ready for a start, was on the top of the hill."
**Personal property

pg. 48 "Without saying a word, or going in the lodge first, we unsaddled in front of it, putting our “possibles” in the back part, the most honored and pleasant place, for there is no passing by, or other annoyance."

pg. 81 "The foibles and virtues of mutual acquaintances in St. Louis, were freely descanted upon, during the discussion of some cigars, found, unexpectedly, among my “possibles” at the Fort, as we crossed our legs on the ground that night before the cottonwood logs."

pg. 144 "Considering his neighbor's possibles “on the prairie” with him--- his own at their entire disposal; and. though coffee. sugar. tobacco, and other luxuries are high-priced, and often purchased with a whole season's trapping, the “black water” is offered with genuine free-heartedness. and the last plug of tobacco subjected to the rapacious knife of the guest, as though it were plenty as the rocks around."

pg. 288 "Putting my possibles in a wagon, I received my amount of coffee, sugar, etc., from the affable Doctor Hampstead."

pg. 306 "Smith, who had been showing, in private conversation with me, a fear of losing his hair, gave notice of leaving with this train, which stopped while he collected his possibles."

So, in the fur trade era the term “possibles” was used for one’s personal property, and the term “possibles sack” or “possibles bag” was then appropriate, but it was never used for the shot pouch. And it shouldn’t be, today if you are really interested in recreating the experience of the old boys in their time. If you aren't, then let it all hang out, who cares. I certainly don't.

Now, if your shoulder bag is where you carry your sun-bleached clothes, cigars, coffee, sugar, tobacco and gâge d’ amours, then maybe Possibles Bag is appropriate.

Spence
 
Using the correct terminology for historic gear is only of interest to re-enactors, and among that group only those who are fairly serious about it.

If a man's only interest is in shooting the guns in one way or another, competition, hunting, casual plinking, then it seems less important, to me. It always puzzles me why those people are even such conversations. All they usually have to offer is rampant speculation, personal experience and armchair imagineering.

Reading through all 4 pages of this thread I find only one post with anything which qualifies as 'evidence' in the form of original quotations, and that was examples of what the bag was actually called in the day, possible bag not one of them.

There are original quotations available which can shed light on the question. It seems "possibles" bag is a legitimate historic term which may have originated in early 19th century, maybe as early as 1830, but not in 18th century. I think "mountain man jargon" is probably a good way to think of it. The problem we have today is not that people are using a term which never existed, which originated with the Buckskinners of the 1970s, or that was invented by some movie scriptwriter. It's that they are applying the legitimate term to the wrong thing.

Rich had it right, I think, it was used for the mountain man's luggage, his suitcase, if you will. Here are some original quotations which seem to bear out what I just described.

_Life in the Far West_, by George Frederick Augustus Ruxton: 1846-47
“For many years after he had deserted his home, La Bonté had cherished the idea of again returning to his country. During this period he had never forgotten his old flame, and many a choice fur he had carefully laid by, intended as a present for Mary Brand; and many a gâge d’ amour of cunning shape and device, worked in stained quills, of porcupine and bright-colored beads---the handiwork of nimble fingered squaws---he had packed in his possible sack for the same destination, hoping a time would come when he might lay them at her feet.”

William Drummond Stewart's fictional book _Edward Warren_, published in 1854 but based on his several years of Rocky mountain experiences during the 1830's, "...my gaudy cottons having confronted the glorious sun until sunk from the contest, were ready to be re-consigned to the possible sack."

And the really important one, with the term used six times and defined by the author in a footnote, page 111.

_Wah-to-yah, and the Taos Trail: Or, Prairie Travel and Scalp dances, with a look at Los Rancheros from muleback and the Rocky mountain camp-fire_, (1846-47), by Lewis Hector Garrard

pg. 111 "On the 8th, we packed our robes, and “possibles” **, and, by eleven o’clock, the wagon, with its two yoke of half-famished oxen attached, ready for a start, was on the top of the hill."
**Personal property

pg. 48 "Without saying a word, or going in the lodge first, we unsaddled in front of it, putting our “possibles” in the back part, the most honored and pleasant place, for there is no passing by, or other annoyance."

pg. 81 "The foibles and virtues of mutual acquaintances in St. Louis, were freely descanted upon, during the discussion of some cigars, found, unexpectedly, among my “possibles” at the Fort, as we crossed our legs on the ground that night before the cottonwood logs."

pg. 144 "Considering his neighbor's possibles “on the prairie” with him--- his own at their entire disposal; and. though coffee. sugar. tobacco, and other luxuries are high-priced, and often purchased with a whole season's trapping, the “black water” is offered with genuine free-heartedness. and the last plug of tobacco subjected to the rapacious knife of the guest, as though it were plenty as the rocks around."

pg. 288 "Putting my possibles in a wagon, I received my amount of coffee, sugar, etc., from the affable Doctor Hampstead."

pg. 306 "Smith, who had been showing, in private conversation with me, a fear of losing his hair, gave notice of leaving with this train, which stopped while he collected his possibles."

So, in the fur trade era the term “possibles” was used for one’s personal property, and the term “possibles sack” or “possibles bag” was then appropriate, but it was never used for the shot pouch. And it shouldn’t be, today if you are really interested in recreating the experience of the old boys in their time. If you aren't, then let it all hang out, who cares. I certainly don't.

Now, if your shoulder bag is where you carry your sun-bleached clothes, cigars, coffee, sugar, tobacco and gâge d’ amours, then maybe Possibles Bag is appropriate.

Spence
.That's what I remembered
 
Using the correct terminology for historic gear is only of interest to re-enactors, and among that group only those who are fairly serious about it.

If a man's only interest is in shooting the guns in one way or another, competition, hunting, casual plinking, then it seems less important, to me. It always puzzles me why those people are even such conversations. All they usually have to offer is rampant speculation, personal experience and armchair imagineering.

Reading through all 4 pages of this thread I find only one post with anything which qualifies as 'evidence' in the form of original quotations, and that was examples of what the bag was actually called in the day, possible bag not one of them.

There are original quotations available which can shed light on the question. It seems "possibles" bag is a legitimate historic term which may have originated in early 19th century, maybe as early as 1830, but not in 18th century. I think "mountain man jargon" is probably a good way to think of it. The problem we have today is not that people are using a term which never existed, which originated with the Buckskinners of the 1970s, or that was invented by some movie scriptwriter. It's that they are applying the legitimate term to the wrong thing.

Rich had it right, I think, it was used for the mountain man's luggage, his suitcase, if you will. Here are some original quotations which seem to bear out what I just described.

_Life in the Far West_, by George Frederick Augustus Ruxton: 1846-47
“For many years after he had deserted his home, La Bonté had cherished the idea of again returning to his country. During this period he had never forgotten his old flame, and many a choice fur he had carefully laid by, intended as a present for Mary Brand; and many a gâge d’ amour of cunning shape and device, worked in stained quills, of porcupine and bright-colored beads---the handiwork of nimble fingered squaws---he had packed in his possible sack for the same destination, hoping a time would come when he might lay them at her feet.”

William Drummond Stewart's fictional book _Edward Warren_, published in 1854 but based on his several years of Rocky mountain experiences during the 1830's, "...my gaudy cottons having confronted the glorious sun until sunk from the contest, were ready to be re-consigned to the possible sack."

And the really important one, with the term used six times and defined by the author in a footnote, page 111.

_Wah-to-yah, and the Taos Trail: Or, Prairie Travel and Scalp dances, with a look at Los Rancheros from muleback and the Rocky mountain camp-fire_, (1846-47), by Lewis Hector Garrard

pg. 111 "On the 8th, we packed our robes, and “possibles” **, and, by eleven o’clock, the wagon, with its two yoke of half-famished oxen attached, ready for a start, was on the top of the hill."
**Personal property

pg. 48 "Without saying a word, or going in the lodge first, we unsaddled in front of it, putting our “possibles” in the back part, the most honored and pleasant place, for there is no passing by, or other annoyance."

pg. 81 "The foibles and virtues of mutual acquaintances in St. Louis, were freely descanted upon, during the discussion of some cigars, found, unexpectedly, among my “possibles” at the Fort, as we crossed our legs on the ground that night before the cottonwood logs."

pg. 144 "Considering his neighbor's possibles “on the prairie” with him--- his own at their entire disposal; and. though coffee. sugar. tobacco, and other luxuries are high-priced, and often purchased with a whole season's trapping, the “black water” is offered with genuine free-heartedness. and the last plug of tobacco subjected to the rapacious knife of the guest, as though it were plenty as the rocks around."

pg. 288 "Putting my possibles in a wagon, I received my amount of coffee, sugar, etc., from the affable Doctor Hampstead."

pg. 306 "Smith, who had been showing, in private conversation with me, a fear of losing his hair, gave notice of leaving with this train, which stopped while he collected his possibles."

So, in the fur trade era the term “possibles” was used for one’s personal property, and the term “possibles sack” or “possibles bag” was then appropriate, but it was never used for the shot pouch. And it shouldn’t be, today if you are really interested in recreating the experience of the old boys in their time. If you aren't, then let it all hang out, who cares. I certainly don't.

Now, if your shoulder bag is where you carry your sun-bleached clothes, cigars, coffee, sugar, tobacco and gâge d’ amours, then maybe Possibles Bag is appropriate.

Spence

Thank you Spence. That is essentially what I was trying to get at in one reply where I mentioned items being termed "possibles," but that is was not shooting gear and not in one's shot pouch. The Lewis Hector Garrard quote is what I was trying to remember, I think I got it from you at some point. Unfortunately I still don't have everything in an easy to use searchable format.
 
Down under, our aboriginals called a small bag or pouch a "dilly bag" not relevant to you blokes. We would have just had hunting bags
 
Sorry for the thread drift but does anyone else besides me still use the term "awol bag?"
 
Absent without leave?

Yes. The "awol bag" was used as a term for a small bag that would pack a few things for a short over night stay of a day or two. Usually just a shaving kit, tooth brush, socks, underwear, etc...

My Father used the term and I naturally called it that even when I was on active duty. I heard a few old-timers use it then as well.

It seems like that is an archaic term like the expression "eating crow."

It sucks growing old.
 
Thanks Spence from me too. I read a number of the sources you quoted in the distant past. Maybe if all of us here just call it a shooting bag or pouch the "possibles bag" term will go away. At least we won't pass it on. I don't have a big problem with it, but appropriate terminology is important.
 
The term 'Dope bag" has been used by target shooters to contain their shooting needs for at least 100 years. Col. Townsend Whelen adapted the term to name his shooting column "The Dope Bag" which debuted in 1921 in the "American Rifleman" magazine. Having a "dope bag" and "doping the wind" kinda sound bad in today's world.
 
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