MISUNDERSTANDING

[Dr5x]

I WAS DOING some research on my late brother who was a Vice Admiral who went by the same name as I and stumbled across a lot of post on The American Long Rifle Forum regarding my efforts. They were not uncomplimentary but a tad short sighted.
They all objected that I was interested in teaching bench shooting. If that'd your interest perhaps I'm your man but bench shooting will show you how well your rifle shoots.
Out of the box or off the table with no instructions using a guessed at powder charge and a grabbed at piece of cotton cloth your ew to you rifle will not give you a group worth talking about. Daniel Boone and David Crocket couldn't shoot any better than that rifle is doing out of the box. You should and I try to help folks make the adjustments in powder, patch thickness and lubrication to bring that bench rest group a group tight enough to bring a smile to your face. That's a number of step ones.
THEN WHEN THE RIFLE HAS DISPLAYED GOOD BEHAVIOR YOU BOLDLY STEP UP, PUT ASIDE YOUR BENCH REST EQUIPMENTS ANDSTAND TO TO TRY YOUR LUCK OR SKILLS SHOOTING OFFHAND.
YOU WILL NOT SHOOT ANYWHERE NEAR AS WELL AS YOU DID TOWARD THE END OF YOUR BENCH REST TUNING IN.
WHY? BECAUSE YOU HAVE TAKEN A PERFECTLY ACCURATE RIFLE AND ADDED ALL YOUR PERSONAL WEAVING, WAVERING AND POSSIBLE SHAKING INTO THE PROCEDURE. HOW EMBARRASSING. Now it is time to work on your stance. You are the gun emplacement and that front sight has taken on a life of its own. Whizzing from left to right and back with maybe a shirt of up and down thrown in for punishment.. Slowly you lear how to control some or even a lot of that and your offhand groups begin to narrow. Don't hold too long it will only get worse etc.
In time you may begin to win prizes and become regarded as a pain in the lower lumbar areas by others at competitions.

But will never do well with a rifle that has never been tamed to acceptable behavior shooting at the bench unaffected by an argument with your bride or the results of a hangover.
If you never do well offhand you can always go back to bench. There is something rather grand about the rifleman who loads aims and fires and hits rather exactly where he aimed.
Dutch

 

[Rich]

True words. Anyone not agreeing with that method has no idea what he is doing. Without bench testing, how do you know if that flyer is you, the patch, the powder load, or the lube? Nope you have no idea at all. Good post.

 

[tenngun]

Since bench rest are hard to find in the woods I do practice a lot from knees and trees. If God wanted us to shoot off hand he wouldn’t have given us so many solid things to rest on. Far be it from me to challenge the design of the universe.

 

[nhmoose]

Remember when you cannot hit off a bench most likely you can't offhand either.

Another of the same kind is he can't hit on paper but he is hell on running game.

 

[Dr5x]

Since bench rest are hard to find in the woods I do practice a lot from knees and trees. If God wanted us to shoot off hand he wouldn’t have given us so many solid things to rest on. Far be it from me to challenge the design of the universe.

LD?
YOU ARE APPARENTLY MISSING MY POINT. WHEN YOU ARE IN THE WOODS THE BENCH REST ACTIVITY SHOULD BE WELL BEHIND YOU. YOU SHOULD NOW KNOW HOW WELL YOUR RIFLE BEHAVES WITHOUT YOUR PERSONAL TWITCHING AND YOU SHOOTING ACCURACY IS NOW TO YOU. IF YOU CAN FINF SOMETHING SOLID OR RELATIVLY SOLID IN THE FOREST GOODIE TWO SHOES BUT YOU SHOULDN'T COUNT ON FINDING ONE WHEN YOU NEED IT.
THE PROBLEM ARISES FROM FIRING A MODERN CARTRIDGE GUN WHERE OUT OF THE BOX IT WILL SHOOT ABOUT AS WELL AS IT EVER WILL WITH THE AMMUNITION YOU ARE USING.
WHAT WAS THAT LONG WALKING POLE CALLED THAT PEOPLE CARRIED TO AID IN WALKING and ALSO USING AS A SORT OF TEMPORARY BENCHCH BY RESTING THE RIFLE ON THE FIST HOLDING THE POLE. BEGAN WITH A "j"?

Dutch

 

[longcruise]

I call that a moses stick.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I hunt where there are a lot of trees and they tend to be more sturdy than walking sticks. Provide some cover as well.

I've never met anyone who didn't spend range time sighting a rifle. But I have met a LOT of hunters who don't spend near enough time standing up like a man to shoot in practice but then try it in a hunting situation. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

 

[Dr5x]

I hunt where there are a lot of trees and they tend to be more sturdy than walking sticks. Provide some cover as well.

I've never met anyone who didn't spend range time sighting a rifle. But I have met a LOT of hunters who don't spend near enough time standing up like a man to shoot in practice but then try it in a hunting situation. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Coaching can be hazardous to one's health
A young man hit ein new ml rifle was missing not only the paper but possibly the berm behind the back stop/I told him that he needed to zero the rifle in while resting on a provided bench rest.
He replied that he intended to go hunting with the rifle and didn't expect to hunt from a bench. I tried 'plain why he was missing everything.
He became rather testy. Apparently I was criticizing his manhood.
I'm sure he junked that nice rifle. There are a lot of good rifles lurking in closets basement and garages because of similar ignorance.
Manhood has NOTHING to do with accuracy. The man from Gastonia who told me Ballistol was a worthy for water soluble oil that I had been using since the '70's told me a worthless T/C Hawken we tuned up went on to win a number of prizes in hands of his bride.
Dutch

 

[Stumpkiller]

You should "bench" to get the sights regulated. Thereafter you should practice the way you will be hunting.

Always great to return to the bench to verify, or refine technique. But practice at the bench is practicing benchrest shooting. We all know poor practice just reenforces poor performance. If you don't spend MORE time practicing in conditions like you hunt then you are cheating yourself. Or kidding yourself.

If you are target shooting? Doesn't really matter. Targets don't suffer. I don't know anyone who does better on targets offhand than they will from a rest. Neither do you. No one does.

I'll use any rest or steadying I can get to if time allows when hunting. Forget prone - it's either wet or snow cover. In my woods I sometimes have three or four seconds from seeing a part of a deer to deciding to shoot to finding a window in the cover to waiting for the smoke to clear. Sometimes I have 15 minutes to line up a 75 yard shot. So I practice it all. I hunt to the limitations of a .54 roundball that has maybe a 120 yard range under perfect conditions and 75 yards most times. Many of the deer I have shot were within 15 yards on the ground. No rest needed.

 

[longcruise]

I load test and accuracy test from a solid Bench but do all the sight regulation offhand.

 

[Dr5x]

You should "bench" to get the sights regulated. Thereafter you should practice the way you will be hunting.

Always great to return to the bench to verify, or refine technique. But practice at the bench is practicing benchrest shooting. We all know poor practice just reenforces poor performance. If you don't spend MORE time practicing in conditions like you hunt then you are cheating yourself. Or kidding yourself.

I have a nephew out das

littleton, Colorado area, a bow hunter who practiced to the extreme of studying the movements of the deer at all the seasons of the year. He learned their habits and where they spent their time. Then when his season opened he'd go out and get a deer like he was going to a meat market. This was some years ago and he is probably as old as most of you gentlemen now and retired.
NOW THE FOLLOWING IS PROBABLY BASED ON A SERIOUS SUPPLY OF PIXIE DUST.
But I want to pass it in thecae there might be some merit.
This gentleman was a deer stalker like hunters have to be but he told me that he was watching a deer and another deer came into the clearing the first deer became alert when he spotted the newcomer then pawed the ground a few times as did the newcomer like that was some kind of signal that there was no threat of any kind as the two deer quietly began grazing.
He thought about this and some time later was standing very still just inside a clearing when a deer entered on the far side. So he made the motions of he "pawing" he had seen before and the der relaxed and began grazing.
I took him both side of three large pages to tell me this.
The most I have seen of a deer is white tail rapidly disappearing but perhaps some guide out there can comment on the chance of this being possible/
Dutch

 

[Dr5x]

You should "bench" to get the sights regulated. Thereafter you should practice the way you will be hunting.

Always great to return to the bench to verify, or refine technique. But practice at the bench is practicing benchrest shooting. We all know poor practice just reenforces poor performance. If you don't spend MORE time practicing in conditions like you hunt then you are cheating yourself. Or kidding yourself.

If you are target shooting? Doesn't really matter. Targets don't suffer. I don't know anyone who does better on targets offhand than they will from a rest. Neither do you. No one does.

I'll use any rest or steadying I can get to if time allows when hunting. Forget prone - it's either wet or snow cover. In my woods I sometimes have three or four seconds from seeing a part of a deer to deciding to shoot to finding a window in the cover to waiting for the smoke to clear. Sometimes I have 15 minutes to line up a 75 yard shot. So I practice it all. I hunt to the limitations of a .54 roundball that has maybe a 120 yard range under perfect conditions and 75 yards most times. Many of the deer I have shot were within 15 yards on the ground. No rest needed.

I expect you bring you bride many deer for her to process. Seriously I think you have a most sensible approach to handle an un predictable situation
.Dutch

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

LD?
YOU ARE APPARENTLY MISSING MY POINT. WHEN YOU ARE IN THE WOODS THE BENCH REST ACTIVITY SHOULD BE WELL BEHIND YOU. YOU SHOULD NOW KNOW HOW WELL YOUR RIFLE BEHAVES WITHOUT YOUR PERSONAL TWITCHING AND YOU SHOOTING ACCURACY IS NOW TO YOU. IF YOU CAN FINF SOMETHING SOLID OR RELATIVLY SOLID IN THE FOREST GOODIE TWO SHOES BUT YOU SHOULDN'T COUNT ON FINDING ONE WHEN YOU NEED IT.
THE PROBLEM ARISES FROM FIRING A MODERN CARTRIDGE GUN WHERE OUT OF THE BOX IT WILL SHOOT ABOUT AS WELL AS IT EVER WILL WITH THE AMMUNITION YOU ARE USING.
WHAT WAS THAT LONG WALKING POLE CALLED THAT PEOPLE CARRIED TO AID IN WALKING and ALSO USING AS A SORT OF TEMPORARY BENCHCH BY RESTING THE RIFLE ON THE FIST HOLDING THE POLE. BEGAN WITH A "j"?

Dutch

Jibberish,,Do you think that Jibberish carries the Day?Can you even make a cogent Post?
SM

 

[SDSmlf]

I have a nephew out das

littleton, Colorado area, a bow hunter who practiced to the extreme of studying the movements of the deer at all the seasons of the year. He learned their habits and where they spent their time. Then when his season opened he'd go out and get a deer like he was going to a meat market. This was some years ago and he is probably as old as most of you gentlemen now and retired.
NOW THE FOLLOWING IS PROBABLY BASED ON A SERIOUS SUPPLY OF PIXIE DUST.
But I want to pass it in thecae there might be some merit.
This gentleman was a deer stalker like hunters have to be but he told me that he was watching a deer and another deer came into the clearing the first deer became alert when he spotted the newcomer then pawed the ground a few times as did the newcomer like that was some kind of signal that there was no threat of any kind as the two deer quietly began grazing.
He thought about this and some time later was standing very still just inside a clearing when a deer entered on the far side. So he made the motions of he "pawing" he had seen before and the der relaxed and began grazing.
I took him both side of three large pages to tell me this.
The most I have seen of a deer is white tail rapidly disappearing but perhaps some guide out there can comment on the chance of this being possible/
Dutch

There is sighting the gun in from the bench and then there is learning and practicing with your gun without the bench. Both are important and related, but definitely not the same thing. Ultimately, how you shoot without the bench in competition and/or in the field are what matters, unless you are strictly a bench rest shooter.

 

[Dr5x]

Jibberish,,Do you think that Jibberish carries the Day?Can you even make a cogent Post?
SM

Jibberish,,Do you think that Jibberish carries the Day?Can you even make a cogent Post?
SM

I bow to you as an expert in gibberish. You should write more from the wilds of south England and let us study how you go about it.All my posts are to encourage people to join in to the conversation. So far it has been a bit successful and many new names have entered into the conversations.

I was not expecting someone to break wind from the old country.

Dutch Schoultz

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

If you wanted to to sound like a Dunce you have succeeded..
Sm

 

[Fred S.]

A dunce Dutch Schoultz most certainly is NOT. There is a lot to be learned from the man.

 

[Dr5x]

If you wanted to to sound like a Dunce you have succeeded..
Sm

I APOLIGIZE. WHAT I WRITE COULD POSSIBLY BE JIBBERISH , YOUR SPELLING, I HAVE BEEN WRITING GIBBERISH, MY SPELLING, AND PUBLISHED IT BROADSIDE SINCE JANUARY OF 1983,
AND SOLD ABOUT 6500 TO 7000 BOOKS SIMPLY LEAKING GIBBERISH.
MY INTEREST HAS BEEN TO ENCOURAGE SOME OF THE ALLEGED THOUSANDS OF LURKERS WHO READ BUT WHO DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE CONVERSATION OF THE FORUM.
A GOOD WAY TO DO THIS IS NOT TO ATTACK IDIOTS LIKE ME WHEN WE DISAGREE WITH THEM. JUST REMAIN SILENT AND TRUST FOLKS TO BE ABLE TO JUDGE THE DEGREE OF GIBBERISH THEY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO.
COMMENTS LIKE YOURS MAY BR DED ON ACCURATE. BUT THE BULK OF OUR READERSHIP DIDN'T LIKE TO STAND UP AND SPEAK IN SCHOOL AND THISC SADLY SEEMS TO CARRY OVER TO THE STRENGTHOF MIND OR PERSONALITY TO BOLDLY POST AND RISK THE LAUGHING CRITICIZM THEY FEAR.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER TO POINT OUT THE THINGS THAT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE to you AND OFFER A BETTER VERSION IN A FRIENDLY WAY A PERSON MIGHT RESPOND TO A NEARLY BLIND OLD FART OF A NUMBER OF YEARS.
I'M SORRY I RESPONDED THE WAY I DID. IMAGINE THE TON OF APOLOGIES I MUST OFFER TO THE CONGREGATION FOR THE UNENDING TONNES OF JIBBERISH I HAVE INFLICTE UP ON THEM.








PLEASE DON'T RESPOND I'M NEAR TEARS AT THE BURDEN I FACE.
DUTCH SCHOULTZ

 

[Dr5x]

A dunce Dutch Schoultz most certainly is NOT. There is a lot to be learned from the man.

NO I WAS MARRIED ONCE AND HAD MY DUNCITUDE POINTED OUT FREQUENTLY FOR 13 YEARS. THE WISE MAN OF SUSSEX MUST BE RIGHT. OUT GOALS ARE FIFFERENT AS I WANT TO ENCOURAGE LURKERS TO COME JOIN US AND TELL THEIR STORIES.
DUTCH

 

[Baxter]

If you wanted to to sound like a Dunce you have succeeded..
Sm

Very unkind of you, sir. Seldom have I witnessed such poor manners.