Starting a Deringer trade rifle

[rich pierce]

I seldom post work in progress here because my progress is often slow, but this build is new and interesting to me as I seldom build “later” flint rifles. I’m starting a Deringer trade rifle on a whim, because I saw an ad for parts for a Deringer trade rifle. Basically the deal was a stock already cut to profile (that gives me the willies) with a 43.5” tapered .54 barrel in it for a fair price. He threw in a sideplate and a stamped out patchbox, which I may or may not use. I approach abandoned builds with trepidation but decided to take it on. I found good information and pictures of Deringer trade rifles in many varieties online, in The Encyclopedia of Trade Goods volume 1, For Trade and Treaty, and The Trade Gun Sketchbook. Armed with these resources, I made a blueprint that will fit on the pre-profiled blank. Here is my planned parts list:
Barrel- 43.5” tapered barrel, .54, 1” to 7/8” taper. No name due to draw filing, but inside it looks exactly like a swamped Charles Burton barrel I have in .54.
Stock: pre-profiled tight curly sugar maple, barrel inlet, with a ramrod groove cut but no hole.
Lock: I decided on the Davis Contract Rifle lock due to availability and size and style. The Chambers Late Ketland is too fancy and The Rifle Shoppe is out of castings of an original Deringer lock (which I really wanted).
Trigger: I will make a single trigger.
Guard: I could not find a guard close to use or modify so I made a master for a guard based on tracings and photos, using plain maple, and sent it to Mike Brooks who will get some cast at a local foundry he’s happy with.
Buttplate: I hammered one out of sheet brass.
Sideplate: will see if the one that came with the stock fits or cut one from sheet brass.
Patchbox: I’m likely to use the one that came with the stock and barrel as a template and make on because the hinge is not as nice as I like.
Thimbles: will make from sheet brass to closely match originals.
Nosecap: will make from sheet brass.
Underlugs: made from folded sheet steel brazed up.
Keys: will peen from mild steel.
Sights: probably purchased.

Progress to date:
Yesterday I moved the barrel back about 3/4 inch to keep the wrist from being longer than on originals. I folded up and brazed up underlugs suitable for keys from sheet steel, made dovetails in the barrel and fitted the underlugs and pinned the barrel in. I’ll make and inlet keys later; for now I just need the barrel locked in. I checked and adjusted the ramrod groove and drilled the ramrod hole. Looks good.

Today I disassembled the Davis Contract Rifle lock, which seems very snappy, and reduced the bolster thickness by about 0.050” and trimmed the inner frizzen edge to match, and re-centered the rib on the backside of the frizzen. Next I re-shaped the tail of the lock to bring the teat more up to center and filed the edges smooth with some draft.

Next step is inletting the lock.

 

[tenngun]

Waiting for photos.

 

[kansas_volunteer]

You should see the book Rifles of the American Indians before going much farther. Good color pictures of Derringer and other trade rifles. I think someone no long back advised me to buy the book. Im glad they did.

 

[rich pierce]

Will check that out. For Trade and Treaty has a nice one compete with measurements. From the Museum of the Fur Trade; might be same gun as in other books. Does your book cite collections? So far I have pictures of 6 Deringer rifles. There’s a lot of variety. I’m making one with an oval copper inlay of a running deer on the cheekpiece. An artist friend is making a stamp to make the relief running deer. Good thing. If I did it, would be hard to tell what animal it was.

 

[kansas_volunteer]

The Deringers in the Indian gun book is a smooth rifle from Gary Mikelson collection and a rifle from the James Gordon collection.. Throughout the book are color photos along with detailed measurements.

If you get a look at it you will see Leman-esque style trigger guards on more than one example. Likewise, double set trigger guards are used with single triggers.

For my project I think a Dickert style lock more suitable. None of the Indian trade rifles in the book have a round faced lock. I don't see any example of a round faced lock in Hanson's book either. Is the contract rifle lock perhaps more of a 1792 contract rifle item?

 

[rich pierce]

The contract rifle lock is a small, flat common lock of the size of a Harpers Ferry with a gooseneck cock. I’m pretty well set on design. I feel you “can’t build them all” in one gun so typically focus on one original as inspiration. I’ve photos of one Deringer rifle where the L&R Dickert lock would be a good starting point.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Rich,
James Gordon shows several Deringer rifles in his "Gun Makers for the Early West Vol 2". The Davis lock should work fine but you might want to file a step in the tail. Also, Davis springs are usually anemic. I've never used a Davis lock that I did not either reshape,harden and temper the main and frizzen springs, or make them from scratch. Pictures please!

dave

 

[rich pierce]

Dave, definitely filing a step in the tail of the lock. I can get some pix up but it’s mostly a pile of parts right now!

I’m guessing I need to upload to a image hosting site in order to post pix here. Been spoiled by another forum lol.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Hanson's book "Trade Rifles Sketch Book" has drawings of two Deringer trade rifles, one in flint and one in percussion. I'll try to remember to bring the book and my Derringer rifle on Tuesday. I am sure your Deringer rifle will be much nicer than mine.

 

[rich pierce]

Mike, I’m using that sketchbook. Very helpful and I think it cost me $4 way back when.

 

[rich pierce]

 

[dave_person]

Nice Rich!
It is going to be a fine gun and you made a good choice of Deringer rifles.
dave

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I guess I better get to the foundry and get your trigger guard cast. How many copies did you want again?

 

[kansas_volunteer]

I might be interested in one of your trigger guards as well. Can you post a picture of the pattern? Will it be done in wax or sand? I've done some heavy bronze casting as part of my art classes and daydream about building my own small back yard foundry, but it sure would be easier to just buy parts.

I want to build a trade rifle of my own, just a generic example, not an exact copy of one, and am inclined to use a Leman trigger guard. However one wouldn't be quite correct for my planned rifle. You know, close but no cigar.

 

[rich pierce]

Comfortably numb will make these available if there’s demand, I’m sure. Sand cast soft yellow brass. He’s got the pattern and I don’t think I took pictures.

 

[rich pierce]

Finishing up this rifle. I’ve got the lock tuned and finished. I case hardened it with Kasenit and quenched in a solution of potassium nitrate. It gives dark colors which I think is a good look for this era rifle.

My good friend Tom Curran made the cheekpiece inlay for this rifle based on the original. This inlay is larger which is what I wanted. He made a die and formed the inlay of thin brass sheet.

 

[poker]

Very interested in seeing the progress on this one Dave. What years was the Deringer rifle produced?

 

[30coupe]

Looking good so far, Rich. Your wood looks much better than the original, which is understandable. I think the trade guns were pretty utilitarian. Yours should be stunning.

 

[rich pierce]

Very interested in seeing the progress on this one Dave. What years was the Deringer rifle produced?

Deringer was one of the earliest suppliers of trade RIFLES to Native Americans and for the western trade. Phil Meek is the better student but as I recall Deringer was making trade rifles as early as 1820. This one is 1820-1840.

 

[Einsiedler]

That is going to be a "grail" rifle!!! Very nice!!!!
I really like the way you finished out the lock!!!