Hunting Question

[Feltwad]

It seems to me that this Forums is more associate to the hunting of deer and turkey, in the Uk the shooting of geese and duck known has wildfowling is well participated but in this hunting forum it is rarely mention Is there a reason ?
Feltwad

 

[Walkingeagle]

Here in Canada there are far fewer waterfowl hunters than big game hunters. Then the number of muzzleloader hunters compared to modern is smaller yet. Couple that with the even smaller number of traditional waterfowl hunters (traditional being muzzleloader) would most likely count in the dozens country wide. Not likely to be discussed much here.
Walk

 

[Spikebuck]

Walk.....agree...same in the U.S. Deer hunting, especially whitetails, is huge here. So even though traditional enthusiasts are small in comparison to modern gunners, there are still plenty of us to have good discussions. Add the fact that separate deer muzzleloading seasons are common encouraging both modern and traditional muzzleloading for big game. To my knowledge, there are no separate waterfowl or upland bird muzzleloader seasons. All but one person I personally know use modern firearms for birding even though they hunt deer with a muzzleloader.

 

[Brokennock]

Waterfowl hunting is big in certain parts of the U.S. but not everywhere. Some hunters are crazy about it, but the use of muzzleloading gear with those hardcore waterfowl hunters is almost nonexistent. Some of this could be due to the non-toxic shot laws, but, I think most of it is to to modern commercialized "whack em and stack em," mentalities.

 

[Feltwad]

Here in the UK the ban on using lead on most wetlands saw a end to muzzle loading although there are still areas where lead can be used for fowl but not on wetlands. Steel or bismuth are allowed but to use steel in a Damascus barrel would soon ruin them , if you use steel the repros with steel barrels are ok
Feltwad

 

[Spikebuck]

... I think most of it is to to modern commercialized "whack em and stack em," mentalities.

Unfortunately this is cross species and not just related to waterfowl. Then they complain when the numbers are down!

The goal of modern commercialized hunting companies is to continually make things easier and easier and requiring fewer and fewer skills of any kind on the part of the shooter/hunter. I just had someone send me a YouTube clip an outfitter on my former lease posted of a woman shooting a buck with her "muzzleloader." It looked just like a bolt action rifle with a huge scope, no ramrod, and when she shot, there was no smoke and it sounded just like a modern rifle. HUH? I was showing my son-in-law asking him if he thought it was really a muzzleloader. He looked it up and it turns out it's some new Remington bastardization that literally uses a bulletless smokeless powder primed rifle cartridge loaded into the breach, and then I guess the bullet is put down from the muzzle, but I don't know how without a ramrod. Someone feels this fulfills the legal requirement for a muzzleloader, I guess. I really didn't care to learn any more about this but it's clear that the next step with the modern gunmakers is to not even put the entire load down the barrel of a front stuffer....they are on a path to make muzzleloaders a one-shot high-powered rifle that loads pretty much like one too.

 

[Wisconsin Relic]

I agree with Spikebuck. And for me, personally, I used to really enjoy waterfowl hunting. What killed it for me was the expense. I had to purchase a hunting license, a state waterfowl stamp and a Federal duck stamp, plus a boat and boat license, decoys, calls, anchors and more. It was a much bigger investment that deer hunting. And then the steel shot law was the death knell for me as regards waterfowl hunting.

Here in Wisconsin, I ONLY hunting during the muzzleloader season because I prefer to be left alone and hunt deer on the deer's terms, things like finding feeding or bedding areas, watching the wind, stalking, tracking and so on. During the general firearm deer season with over 600,000 hunters afield, the deer are harassed into a frenzy. I guess I’m off topic a bit but whitetail hunting in general has pushed waterfowl hunting aside in popularity.

 

[Brokennock]

""... I think most of it is to to modern commercialized "whack em and stack em," mentalities."
Unfortunately this is cross species and not just related to waterfowl. "

Unfortunately I know you are right SpikeBuck.

 

[bud in pa]

I started hunting 65 years ago. It was mostly rabbits and pheasants in NJ. Hunting with family was always a blast. We would heckle each other and tease one and other. I remember my first deer hunt, standing next to a tree for hours on end, not as much fun as small game hunting. To this day I always get a doe permit, I hunt for meat. If I get a buck I use the antlers for knife handles and powder measures, and whatever else I can use then for. Around here it is about $500 to mount a head, I have neither the desire or spare cash to do this. I don't condemn those that do, to each his own. I am not the consumate hunter, if I had to feed myself by hunting I would have starved to death years ago. This was the first opening day for deer that I did not attend in many years. Old age and arthritis kept me today, I can't wait for deer season to be over so I can go out into the woods and hunt squirrels and rabbits again. A couple of rabbits or squirrels in my bag wont throw my back out. To everybody else go out and do whatever makes you happy and enjoy!

 

[Feltwad]

Lets not get this tread off track are there any muzzle loaders who shoot wildfowl lets have your views .
Feltwad

 

[Rifleman1776]

Most replies were on track. The question was asked why there are so many fewer wildfowl hunters than for land walking game. Most replies gave valid reasons. e.g. lead ban on shot; confinement in blinds prohibits ramrod; etc. I also see the expense as a huge factor. Modern shotgun hunters buy their ammo by the case. That's expensive. Places to hunt from are often on private land that must be leased to use. Very expensive. Most hunters must have a guide, either by law or need. That's expensive. Then there is travel, lodging, food, etc. Very expensive. By contrast, I can walk out my back door and shoot a deer with my ml and answer to no one except to the G&F Commission for their statistical records. Personally, I have to wonder just how effective an ml bp shotgun would be trying to reach those high flying ducks.

 

[Feltwad]

Most replies were on track. The question was asked why there are so many fewer wildfowl hunters than for land walking game. Most replies gave valid reasons. e.g. lead ban on shot; confinement in blinds prohibits ramrod; etc. I also see the expense as a huge factor. Modern shotgun hunters buy their ammo by the case. That's expensive. Places to hunt from are often on private land that must be leased to use. Very expensive. Most hunters must have a guide, either by law or need. That's expensive. Then there is travel, lodging, food, etc. Very expensive. By contrast, I can walk out my back door and shoot a deer with my ml and answer to no one except to the G&F Commission for their statistical records. Personally, I have to wonder just how effective an ml bp shotgun would be trying to reach those high flying ducks.

Ok I get the message it seems that the expense is one of the main reasons but has far has winged game is concerned on well managed estates here in the UK to shoot goose. duck pheasant partridge, grouse, woodcock , snipe and many more we are better for choice .
Feltwad

 

[Rich]

Here in the UK the ban on using lead on most wetlands saw a end to muzzle loading although there are still areas where lead can be used for fowl but not on wetlands. Steel or bismuth are allowed but to use steel in a Damascus barrel would soon ruin them , if you use steel the repros with steel barrels are ok
Feltwad

Use some shot cups as used in modern shotgun shells. This will protect your barrel and perhaps even tighten your patterns.

 

[theoldredneck]

You ask why little is written here about hunting ducks and geese with muzzleloaders. For myself like most have said the changes in laws, steel shot, hunting areas, etc took the enjoyment out of it with modern or muzzleloader. Grew up hunting quail at home, No birds left, no farming in the area, fields over grown in brush. Rabbit hunting with beagles has also died. I pay dues for a hunting club membership every year. There have been several years I did not put foot on property. My best friend duck hunted there until he died. Last year he duck hunted he said he wouldn't duck hunt again. Wasn't worth it. Things in this part of the country are changing. This is my last year to pay club dues. The property is being divided and sold. Cheaper to belong to a skeet & trap club, can shoot more. Would not go duck or geese hunting now if someone else paid all expenses. The desire is dead, several things have killed it for myself and others. The plantation and paid hunts are not the same as the natural hunts of years ago. Would rather keep the memories of hunts from years past with friends that have now past. Friend at skeet & trap club jokes about building throwers to throw froozen birds for this generation behind us. Love to read Britsmoothy, reminds me of years past.

 

[Feltwad]

You ask why little is written here about hunting ducks and geese with muzzleloaders. For myself like most have said the changes in laws, steel shot, hunting areas, etc took the enjoyment out of it with modern or muzzleloader. Grew up hunting quail at home, No birds left, no farming in the area, fields over grown in brush. Rabbit hunting with beagles has also died. I pay dues for a hunting club membership every year. There have been several years I did not put foot on property. My best friend duck hunted there until he died. Last year he duck hunted he said he wouldn't duck hunt again. Wasn't worth it. Things in this part of the country are changing. This is my last year to pay club dues. The property is being divided and sold. Cheaper to belong to a skeet & trap club, can shoot more. Would not go duck or geese hunting now if someone else paid all expenses. The desire is dead, several things have killed it for myself and others. The plantation and paid hunts are not the same as the natural hunts of years ago. Would rather keep the memories of hunts from years past with friends that have now past. Friend at skeet & trap club jokes about building throwers to throw froozen birds for this generation behind us. Love to read Britsmoothy, reminds me of years past.

Correct me if I am wrong but what has been written at different times it seems to me that conservation with game management does not exist for game shooting everything has been taken out and nothing put back. He in the Uk things are different we manage our shooting by keeping vermin to a minimum the rearing of game on shooting estates which are looked after by the game keeper, it is not only the estates that benefit but also the small shoots when game get moved on to other shoots where no rearing is done
Feltwad
Keeping pests under control

 

[Sidney Smith]

I know in my state (PA), waterfowl hunting is nowhere near as popular as in other states. Yes there is some waterfowl shooting taking place but its not like deer season where everywhere you go there is someone hunting. Now since we have a special flintlock deer season you are going to see many more muzzleloaders out than in other states, but again waterfowl shooting is probably not too high on anyone's list.

 

[Spikebuck]

Here's an overall view of waterfowl hunting in the U.S. Net...while populations of ducks are at historical highs, the number of hunters has plummeted 50%.

https://business.realtree.com/business-blog/pondering-us-waterfowl-hunting-numbers

It makes sense that if the modern gunners aren't participating nearly as much anymore, the number of traditional hunters in the waterfowl marshes is probably pretty minimal.

 

[Brokennock]

The Mississippi flyway still sees a lot of duck hunters, and a lot of ducks and geese, just not a lot of folks doing it for the reasons laid out by several here. Canada geese are so abundant here as to be a nuisance, folks hunt them, but we have made it so nice for them that the population never seems to drop. Other game birds and small waterfowl have a tougher time of it through loss of habitat, and, worse, almost no control of the predator population. Coyote populations have exploded, bear numbers here in CT. are unchecked, and the worst for the game birds, the protection of birds of prey has done its job and bird of prey populations have soared (ha ha, get it), but now that the numbers have recovered I'm sure there is no hope of getting those numbers in check so grouse/partridge and smaller ducks and such will suffer.
I know you think all is superior there. Can the average Joe or Jane just go online or to the local sporting goods store and buy a license a gun and some ammo and go hunt? Most states here have public hunting land, and studies have shown that it is NOT the hunters that have reduced game population numbers, so one can take a safety course, buy the license and tags, buy or borrow a gun/bow, get some ammo, and go hunt.
Unfortunately if a lot of people here don't wake up real quick, we are going to loose that freedom real soon. Regardless of what one hunts with. Hunting and shooting is on it's way to becoming an activity for the wealthy and privileged.

The attitudes that contribute to the lack of muzzleloading hunters in general and, now that you bring it up, muzzleloader use for waterfowl hunting in particular, are not and will not help our cause.
I agree that certain technical difficulties have been foisted upon the muzzleloading waterfowl hunter. But, beyond the shot material restriction challenge, isn't working with and overcoming those difficulties part of the allure, part of why we do this? The trophy hunting t.v. show, treating the taking of game like it's a competition with high fives and whooping it up over some antlers or a large bag limit taken, shoot more game and farther and easier with the latest greatest gizmo, commercial mentality makes using a muzzleloader not only unfathomable for many modern hunters, it is not even on their radar as a possibility. I think this mentality/attitude issue is compounded for waterfowl hunting with it's already unique challenges.

 

[Dave Marsh]

Duck and goose hunting is good around here however I don't like to eat either so don't hunt them. Tried goose once and that was enough. Pheasant is delicious but we don't have any here in NY except on pheasant raising farms and I just don't particularly care for the price or the lack of fair chase. I was raised in Southern Minnesota when the pheasant hunting was great. I do grouse hunt and enjoy them on the grill.

Dave

 

[FiremanBrad]

The easy answer is, plain and simple, Deer and turkey are just more fun to hunt!
Every duck is the same.
Every deer is different