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How do U compensate for various distance with your ML?

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I’m fairly new to bp shooting, but shoot in competition only. I have a T/C 50 cal Hawken and a 50 cal T/C New Englander. I usually adjust the elevation of the rear sight. Although I do adjust the powder charge between 50 and 100 yards. I am still working on developing a good load and sight elevation for the various ranges
 
Over on the N-SSA site there's lots of good info by guys who mostly compete, and not as many hunters as here.

One gentleman i spoke with about my 1863 Remington ( w/ folding rear sights) said he ignores the V, and instead drills a peep in each folding leaf, set to different distances.

I haven't shot my '63 much... but may consider his info.

Many there talk of one load for each distance, to flatten the looping trajectory.

Check them out.

www.n-ssa.net
 
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Larry,

I think I did not make myself clear, so I will try it again on adjusting the rear sight. I did not mean attempting or actually moving the rear sight, once you get it set up for all the distances you shoot. Rather it is best to set it up so the groups are as close to center as can be at all ranges you shoot.

Allow me to give an example. Let's say when you use at center aiming point at all distances you find at 25 yards the rifle shoots 5 inches to the left, at 50 it shoots 3 inches to the left and at 100 it shoots 1 inch to the left. Well, that 5 inches to the left at 25 yards is outside a person's "wobble area" and one would have to deliberately try to hold to the right to compensate. Far better to move the rear sight so the groups are closer to center, but maybe not perfectly centered at 25 yards or then the groups at 100 might be/would be too far outside your wobble area. Perhaps it would in this case be better to move the rear sight to the right a little so the groups strike 1 1/2 to 2 inches to the left and then the groups at 100 would be slightly to the right, but all the groups would be inside your wobble area at each range.

The point I was trying to make is with fixed sights that you won't move, it can be better to sort of "split the difference" where you put the rear sight so it comes close to center at all distances, because most times it will be impossible for the windage to be correct at all three distances.

Gus
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Larry, sorry there was something else I forgot to mention.

My Target Accuracy load in my old hand built .45 flint rifle with Douglas Barrel is 42 1/2 grains of FFFg powder and that had plenty of "oomph" to keep accuracy at 100 yards. I wasn't going for the least powder charge at short range, but rather the most accurate load. Yet, I did not think that enough "oomph" to shoot mid to large size game.

So I increased the powder charge while still looking for an accurate Hunting load with a larger powder charge, that did not hold groups quite as tight as the Target Load, but close. I found that load at 75 grains of FFFg powder in that rifle. Now, had my Target Accuracy Load not had enough "oomph" at 100 yards to get good groups at that distance, I would have used the 75 grain load on 100 yard targets.

Back when I began shooting ML's in the early 70's, it was common knowledge that each rifle would have a lighter Target Accuracy load and a heavier charge Hunting load that would be enough for shooting mid to large size game, but still hold fairly tight groups. So going to a heavier charge for 100 yards is not out of the question as long as you find the load that shoots the best with a larger charge.

Gus
 
Larry,
25 yards the rifle shoots 5 inches to the left, at 50 it shoots 3 inches to the left and at 100 it shoots 1 inch to the left. Gus
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Gus,
I realize the red text by you is only an example, but it does not seem a reasonable one. No disrespect intended. POI can and does change with distance plus or minus of center, If it is not on center at the closest target. It increases with distance and decreases with shots closer to the gun. I do not believe I have ever encountered what you have described. ( I am referring to windage)
Larry
 
a lot of shooters dont realize that if they do a lot of .22 long rifle shooting the kentucky windage is about the same for a muzzleloader. if your really really good with a standard .22 long rifle then you can shoot a flinter and percussion well also. about the same kentucky windage. i have hit prairie dogs at 300 yards with a .22 long rifle and have also with a 45/70 and a front stuffer. they shoot about the same.
 
Gus,
I realize the red text by you is only an example, but it does not seem a reasonable one. No disrespect intended. POI can and does change with distance plus or minus of center, If it is not on center at the closest target. It increases with distance and decreases with shots closer to the gun. I do not believe I have ever encountered what you have described. ( I am referring to windage)
Larry

Hi Larry,

Absolutely no offense taken at all.

In the example I'm describing the possible first group/s, before one moves the rear sight to better align it for windage. If effect, that rifle is shooting to the left and more so, the further back it goes. This even though the first groups hit to the right of the target. Now because the example rifle shoots more to left the further the range, I'm suggesting one doesn't want to try to exactly center the groups at 25 yards, because the rifle will shoot way to the left at 100 and way outside most Shooters' wobble area. This is why I suggest moving the rear sight so the groups are still just a bit to the right at 25 yards and that way the groups won't be WAY to Left at 100 yards.

Of course I'm also referring to Offhand shooting at all the distances, if one is shooting from sitting or prone, then it is much easier to "Hold OFF" to the right at 100 yards to compensate.

Gus
 
Of course, if one is going to be shooting at really fine targets like taught strings or double blade axe bits (to split the ball on the blade and have each half hit a clay pigeon on either side), then it is probably best to center the windage at 25 yards and just deal with the rifle shooting so far to the left at 100 yards, as in the example.

But if one is shooting at round bullseyes or even different larger targets than mentioned above, I would suggest leaving the Rear sight so the rifle shoots just a bit to the right at 25 yards.

Gus
 
Kentucky windage is what I use. I hunt a lot, and I’ll load with my most accurate load, then use Kentucky windage to adjust if needed.

What many folks may not know is that even with the most accurate, adjustable sight, unmentionable rifles: one still has to use Kentucky Windage if the wind changes during a single stage of firing on one target at one range.

Gus
 
I set up my rifles point-blank at 50 yd. 25 yd is almost the same hold, because the trajectory is almost flat (rising a bit) to 50 from there. With a ball speed of about 1200fps, I have to hold about 6 inches high for 100. Set for center at 50, its on center everywhere out as far as it will shoot. I cannot think of any reason why the trajectory would wander from side to side, except for wind effects, which can usually be ignored out to about 50 yd. Wind plays a much bigger role as the ball slows down.
 
I adjust my sights to center but wind must be taken out. I shot IHMSA when I had to aim at the next ram at 200 meters to hit what i was shooting at. Kentucky windage for sure. I would adjust for 50 meters and never, ever touched the windage adjustment again. Only elevation was changed.
Now there is a problem with twist rates and the S&W revolver with a 240 gr could be seen through a spotting scope. The bullet would revolve around the flight path like a corkscrew. Going to a 250 gr bullet and the bullet flew straight. Watching a friends bullet from a 30-30 TC, the bullet was going to the next ram and swung back to hit the ram he was shooting at. I sold him the TC and it would shoot pennies at 100 yards with cast bullets.
Moneyshot.jpg
 
This post is in reference to fixed sights & target shooting only
If a rifle/smoothbore is zeroed at 25 or 50 yards:
Do you, or how do you, compensate for longer/shorter distance? I personally use more or less powder, but wondered if others might just use Kentucky windage by eyeballing the front sight either up or down some. We all have our ways but I like to know how others compensate/adjust for variable distance.

Flintlocklar :rolleyes:
In my opinions... if you zero at 50, you're good for 75 straight out. If you zero at 75, you're good to 90 straight out. Beyond that... for hunting that is, PASS. Burgers and the like... :) At a 75 yard zero for my guns, I'd have to add roughly 8-9 inches each 25 yards beyond. Top of the back for hunting. Having a familiarity with your guns performance tho is best actually shot. Wherever your zero is, and whatever you contemplate being your longest shots, I'd think you'd actually want to shoot it in at least 25 yard increments just to know. Long Range Shooting can get pretty complex, and adequate computer programs assist there immensely... as well as scopes... but really... I'm 50-75 at most... :D
 
It may also depend on your loads. A lot of the targets are using standardized "bullseye" black areas. So once you know those you can choose one for sighting in. For me a "lollipop" hold at fifty yards at a 8" bull, means at 75 yards I'm on the center of the bull, and at 100 yards, I aim just a tad above the center of the bull. Alas for my local range...50 yards is downhill a bit, and 75 not as much of an angle, and 100 yards (depending on where you staple the target to the stand) is either level with me or a teeny bit high. Seems to work for me for hitting deer though.
LOLLIPOP Sight Picuture at 50.jpg
50 yard


LOLLIPOP Sight Picutre at 50.jpg
75 yard


LOLLIPOP Sight Picture at 100.jpg
100 yard

LD
 
It may also depend on your loads. A lot of the targets are using standardized "bullseye" black areas. So once you know those you can choose one for sighting in. For me a "lollipop" hold at fifty yards at an 8" bull, means at 75 yards I'm on the center of the bull, and at 100 yards, I aim just a tad above the center of the bull. Alas for my local range...50 yards is downhill a bit, and 75 not as much of an angle, and 100 yards (depending on where you staple the target to the stand) is either level with me or a teeny bit high. Seems to work for me for hitting deer though.
View attachment 9340
50 yard


View attachment 9341
75 yard


View attachment 9342
100 yard

LD
Very nice presentation! I don't shoot paper much and when I do, the target dot is just a dot and pretty much, though with a post front sight 6 o'clock and on target are just about equal, when my bullets fall short (low) or beyond (high), the condition that sent them there are pretty much constant. I used to shoot at a 4" bull (square) at 100 yards and the goal was all in the black. That pretty much is how I am today as well and my approach serves for what I do. I try to now shoot at the smallest target I can see, and I'm not zeroing at 100 anymore... usually at 50 and sometimes to 75.
 
Thank you for the compliment.
The circles in my home-made illustrations are not to scale, there are just to give the reader an idea of the idea that I'm trying to convey.

I forgot to mention what when one gets reasonably "good" with bullseyes at known distances, one should try "novelty" targets and at odd distances. The fact that you're not shooting at a standard size impact area on a known target will get you to work on range estimation, AND if you're hitting pretty close if not "on" at those odd distances, you'll get a lot more experience and confidence in your sight picture.

LD
 
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