.32 PRB for Mountain Lion

[FishDFly]

" Everyone says these cats are not tenacious but remember too 150# cats regularly attack and kill 400# cow elk..."

There is a large difference between a very hungry mountain lion and one perched in a tree with a bunch of dogs underneath it with a couple of hunters staring at it.

Seem lately that most mountain lions attacks are small young males who are hungry and the attacks are occurring in urban areas where the mountain lions are not afraid of humans.

How many folks have hunted a mountain lion and have actually shot one here????

I have not, but I read a lot and have been able to sit and visit with an experienced guide/hunter and did learn a bit.

Caliber asked for will work, this is not Africa. Again I read a lot, has any one ever heard of a guide having to a wounded M/L?

 

[Ronald F]

I have seen 5 mountain lions in the wild. Killed 2. First was a running shot at about 60 yards. The 2nd was a wounded female at about 5 feet. This was in Arizona on family ranch. We were hunting deer in a box canyon when we jumped her out bunch of manzanita, the fellow who was with me took a shot hitting her in hind leg. It took us most of the day to blood trail her into cave in some granite boulders. I thought I could see her so I laid down on my belly and started to crawl in. She jumped down in front of me and I shot her. Like sticking your head in a garbage can and pulling the trigger on a 308. After skinning her out she was 9 feet tip of nose to tip of tail. My observation of cougars when they meet humans is they want to get the hell out of dodge.

 

[azmntman]

" Everyone says these cats are not tenacious but remember too 150# cats regularly attack and kill 400# cow elk..."

I know of at least one German Shepherd that took down a full sized cow elk.

Dogs do it for sport and per instinct. Gotta raise em around livestock young so they know not to screw with big animals, my vet tech son sees a few dogs a year with busted jaws from screwing with the wrong elk/deer. They can kick quite accurately I hear.

 

[arcticap]

In the northeast in particular, whenever there's a cougar sighting it starts debate since they've been extinct for so long here.
People either don't want to believe that they exist locally or think there's a conspiracy among state wildlife dept.'s to cover up evidence.
Too many people say that they have seen them or their tracks, but the naysayers claim that they must be pets that escaped or were let loose.
But in 2011, a wild cougar that was killed by a car in Connecticut was confirmed to have come from the Black Hills of South Dakota
and tracked through Minnesota and Wisconsin in 2009 and 2010.
The last cougar reportedly killed in Pennsylvania was in 1871, and in Maine in 1938.
This was a 140 lb. male nicknamed the St. Croix Mountain Lion after the Wisconsin county of its first confirmed sighting.
Here's photos of the dead cougar that had traveled over 1500 miles.--->>> https://www.ctpost.com/local/articl...e-from-South-Dakota-1599627.php#photo-1074446

 

[SDSmlf]

Have never shot a mountain lion, let alone one that was chased up a tree by hounds. I have been on bear hunts with hounds and have witnessed a couple bears being taken. Once in the tree, the ‘hunt’ is over. The harvest is a very short range event. Imagine the same for mountain lions. The biggest concern was the dogs getting hurt, by the bear or a stray bullet if the bear still had attitude once on the ground.

Normally, I prefer a larger caliber for hunting, but for a treed lion, would think a 32 RB would be about perfect. For tree rats, I use a 12 grain load of fff under #1-1/2 swaged buckshot from Balistic Products. Believe MV is around 1000 FPS or so. Have chronographed loads in the past and remember getting to 2000 FPS with loads somewhere between 40 and 50 grains of powder. That would put the 45 grain RB at 1500 FPS or so at 30 yards. Bad day for a treed puddy-cat.

At short range I have found the hot 32 RB a bit more distructive than a 22 mag. Years ago an uncle of mine had a farm in up state NY that was overrun with cottontails. Using a 32 caliber Seneca at distances out to maybe 25 yards (most were closer) I soon discovered with 40 grain loads, any shot that caught even a bit of the neck pretty much ruined all the meat, with even more damage than a 22 mag, at least on cottontails. Found 15 grains of powder about right. And switched to CB caps in a 22 rim fire when not using the Seneca.

One more comment about the hotter (40-50 grain plus) loads. Remember having issues finding a ‘load friendly’ patch material that was accurate without using a felt wad over the powder.

 

[Fatelvis]

I’ve heard that when hunting treed cats, particularly when using dogs, it is better for one to use a smaller caliber so the cat bleeds out thoroughly before falling from the tree. They claim if one is “knocked” out of the tree by a major caliber, they tend to have too much life left in them by the time they hit the ground, and will put a hurting on the waiting dogs. Admittedly, I’ve never hunted cats, but it sounded believable to me.

 

[FishDFly]

I have been fortunate to hunt in quite a few Western States/Alaska on guided hunts, being on foot and horse back.

I have learned a few things.

The Guide, you are paying for his knowledge which you do not have. Listen to him, your welfare could depend on him and what he knows, regardless what you may have read.

After killing a Mountain Goat and getting it into manageable sizes to pack to the horses and after a candy bar, the guide asked if he died then of a heart attack, could I get back to the cabin.

Told him yep, I can do that. He asked how are you so sure?

I told him I can always find my way home. Only thing I do did know is where to find the place where the horses are to find the place to swim the creek to the cabin.

Told him they they will go home and want hay and oats along with a nights rest.

 

[Rat]

Anyone who has ever had to cull feral kitty-cats off their property know that kitty cats are not easy to kill. Cougars do have a reputation for not being hard to kill. The .32 with a hot load should work well, especially with the cat stuck in a tree, surrounded by dogs, and several guys with magnum pistols. I think I'd choose a .36 or .40 over a .32, but it will work. I prefer to call them in, and meet them 1-on-1, on the ground. Even so, they seem to drop, when shot. But the smallest I've used is an unmentionable caliber that rhymes with "dirty-dirty". Normally I use the same caliber ML rifles and muskets that I use for big game.

 

[FishDFly]

Nice, very large looking at the paws.

 

[BrownBear]

Nice, very large looking at the paws.

Got a big male hanging around our place in the Rockies and we've had lots of good looks at him. Hard to say standing soooo far behind the cat and leaning forward like that, but comparing his hands to the paws it does indeed look like a good cat.

 

[Rat]

Three possibly four year old. I hunt Northeastern Washington State, and we grow them pretty big. There's a big, VERY big grey one that I called in last year, but couldn't get the sights on long enough to pull the trigger. Those things can really cover ground fast. Came in within ten-fifteen foot of me. Looked ten foot long with a fifteen foot tail. Didn't know he was there until I shut off my call and stood up. !!!! I'll be looking for him next fall.

These cats are very tenacious and powerful, but have an extreme fear of man anywhere they are hunted. They certainly don't have the attitude of an African lion, which is always spoiling for a fight. Wolves, who will gang up on a bear, will stand down and leave the cougars alone, and a cougar will chase multiple wolves off a kill. They do indeed take down elk. But for some reason they don't do well with taking a bullet, I'm in the camp that says they are not hard to kill with a firearm. Hunting them 1-on-one on the ground, where they usually come in within 25 yards, I don't put too much faith in that, and always use something much more powerful than a .32", .22 magnum, etc. I prefer .62" Jeagers, .58" military rifles,

and Brown Bess muskets. !! But again, shooting an exhausted cat out of a tree, with a magnum pistol on the hip, and other dudes with pistols, (can you say "crossfire"?) and a pack of dogs distracting the cat, I think a .32" is fine. (has anyone mentioned a double ball load?)

 

[Rat]

I’ve heard that when hunting treed cats, particularly when using dogs, it is better for one to use a smaller caliber so the cat bleeds out thoroughly before falling from the tree. They claim if one is “knocked” out of the tree by a major caliber, they tend to have too much life left in them by the time they hit the ground, and will put a hurting on the waiting dogs. Admittedly, I’ve never hunted cats, but it sounded believable to me.

Not sure about that. They seem (the cat above did) to drop when shot with major/normal calibers, and I think that most of the videos I've seen of treed cats being shot, they drop out of the tree right away even when shot with .22's. ?? But I've never shot one out of a tree...or with a micro-caliber weapon. I still believe they don't take bullets very well, but again, I'm surely not going to shoot one with a .22", or .32", when I'm sitting on the ground 20 yards from it. !!!! But I'd take the .32" over the .22" for sure, and again I think the .32" will work fine on a treed cat.

 

[Rat]

 

[FishDFly]

Nice collection, I really like the bottom left.

 

[Col. Batguano]

A treed mountain lion with a bunch of dogs yapping at it is NOT the same animal as following up a wounded African lion, leopard, or Bengal tiger WITHOUT dogs. The only one I've ever taken was with a bow, (those holes sew up really easy for the taxidermist) and when he came down he was most interested in just getting away. I've seen a few taken with medium power firearms too, like the 30-30, and bobcats with a the .22 lr. too. I would think the 32 would probably be ok, but bigger would probably be better.

 

[Rat]

Nice collection, I really like the bottom left.

Thanks, aren't those nice colors? The trick is to not boil them to remove the flesh. That ruins them. Just have to do it the hard way, but putting them in a bag of borax for a week makes it much easier.

 

[Danny Ross]

If you use a 32, you either are going to have to make a head shot or a solid neck shot which is probably what is aimed at with the 22mag (I am betting that is done with a low power scope also). A chest shot would kill it but it will take a lot longer with either the 22mag or 32cal, as a single shot. Shooting the neck you are either going to hit the spine, major blood vessels, or take out the trachea. Hitting any of these "should" give you a quick clean kill. Your shooting WILL have to be precise though, because those target areas, will be small, and you will be shooting through limbs with that cat in a tree. More than likely free handed, your heart pounding, and wore out from chasing it. If you are going for the chest cavity shot 40cal or bigger, cats can get well over 200lbs for a big Tom. If you think about, it that is deer size game, but a whole lot meaner. Would YOU hunt deer with a 32cal? A .357 was mentioned, you are talking magnum velocities with that round using a 125-168gr bullet, which gives you high kinetic energy for impact, greater expansion, and tissue destruction into the chest cavity. It will work for deer at closer ranges. You are not going to get that kind of kinetic energy with a 45-50gr 32cal round ball out of a muzzleloader, which is even smaller than the .357 in diameter. You are trying to take this animal with a muzzleloader, as a muzzloader kill. Do you really want a center fire round through your animal to finish it off? Because you thought you could do it with a squirrel round? If you worried about an exit hole with your shot, a good taxidermist can take care of that with no problem, that cat will have a winter coat on when you shoot it. Your hunt, your chance, your choice. DANNY

 

[Zonie]

Personally, I think the whole idea of shooting a mountain lion with a .32 caliber muzzleloader is a shining example of "Testosterone In Action".

A big cat, or any animal, deserves better than having a hunter for whatever the reason shoot it with a caliber that does not have a good chance of killing it quickly and cleanly.

Any hunter that says that he intentionally killed a big game animal with a .22 mag or with a .32 caliber muzzleloader will instantly lose all of the respect he's trying to get from me.

Use at least a .45 caliber gun on it. It deserves no less.

 

[SDSmlf]

Personally, I think the whole idea of shooting a mountain lion with a .32 caliber muzzleloader is a shining example of "Testosterone In Action".

A big cat, or any animal, deserves better than having a hunter for whatever the reason shoot it with a caliber that does not have a good chance of killing it quickly and cleanly.

Any hunter that says that he intentionally killed a big game animal with a .22 mag or with a .32 caliber muzzleloader will instantly lose all of the respect he's trying to get from me.

Use at least a .45 caliber gun on it. It deserves no less.

A hot loaded 32 RB will leave the muzzle north of 2000 FPS and deliver quite an impression at the point blank range you will shoot a treed lion at, probably at no more than 25 or 30 feet. Having been around a couple of dog treed bears, there is plenty of time to pick your shot. If the animal jumps early the hounds will tree it again. Imagine mountain lion hunting is similar.

We can read and assume all we want, but the hired guide is the expert. They will not endanger the client, his dogs or anyone on site. Nor will they disrespect the animals. You follow the directions from your guide. Learned this in Africa. I have never seen a treed mountain lion let alone shot one. If I didn’t have confidence in my guide it would be time to hire a different guide before embarking on a mountain lion hunt.

What are opinions from those who have taken a treed mountain lion over hounds? Is a 32 roundball efficient and ethical?

 

[arcticap]

Looking up several resources, it becomes clear that cougars come in a large range of body sizes & weights, which means that they have an average size as opposed to all of them being exceptionally large and heavy ones.
For instance:
"Adult Male: 120 - 220 lbs.
Adult Female: 64 - 140 lbs." (Google)

"Generally, though, males weigh between 115 and 220 pounds (52 and 100 kilograms) and females weigh between 64 and 141 pounds (29 and 64 kilograms). --->>> https://www.nwf.org/Educational-Resources/Wildlife-Guide/Mammals/Mountain-Lion

"ADULTS:
Size: Males are larger than females and with an average weight ranging between 100 - 158 lbs (45 – 72 kg) while females range between 54 - 89 lbs (25 – 40 kg). Exceptionally large males may weigh up to 265 lbs (120 kg)."--->>> http://www.balancedecology.org/MountainLionWebSite/Mountain_Lions_Description.html

"Males generally weigh 53 to 100 kg (117 to 220 lb), averaging 68 kg (150 lb). Females typically weigh between 29 and 64 kg (64 and 141 lb), averaging 55 kg (121 lb). Cougar size is smallest close to the equator and larger towards the poles. The largest recorded cougar, shot in 1901, weighed 105.2 kg (232 lb); claims of 125.2 kg (276 lb) and 118 kg (260 lb) have been reported, though they were most likely exaggerated. On average, adult male cougars in British Columbia weigh 56.7 kg (125 lb) and adult females 45.4 kg (100 lb), though several male cougars in British Columbia weighed between 86.4 and 95.5 kg (190 and 211 lb)"---->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar

Some breeds of dogs can weigh as much as a cougar:
The weight of an adult Great Dane:
"Weight: Female: 99–130 lbs (45–59 kg), Male: 120–200 lbs (54–90 kg)"

Ballistic Data reported from the TC Seneca Booklet:

32 cal RB (.315", 47gn)

30 gns FFFg 1714 fps 307 FT Lbs
40 gns FFFg 1929 fps 388 FT Lbs
50 gns FFFg 2055 fps 441 FT Lbs ( Max! in red writing)

32 cal Maxi-ball 103gn)

30 gns FFFg 1418 fps 460 FT Lbs
40 gns FFFg 1628 fps 606 FT Lbs
50 gns FFFg 1749 fps 700 FT Lbs ( Max! in red writing)

I once saw a cougar that was mounted and while it was quite long, it looked rather thin, slinky and low to the ground.
It wouldn't have required very much penetration for a bullet to enter its vitals.
If it's treed then it's not like it will need to be tracked.
And it sounds like the guide is familiar with the average size of the cougars that are shot on his reservation.