1st time figuring out a load

[Mockingbird]

Looking for some wisdom. So I have had my rifle for a bit now and life has finally permitted me to start shooting again. The rifle is by Brad and Shane Eming of Cabin Creek. After my first try at working up a load I am quite puzzled as things don’t seem to be going too well. I feel like there is something I am missing, here are the details. Distance 30 yards, shooting from bench with bags, temp 50 deg F, Cal .54, Ball is cast round ball in .530 by Rush Creek Roundball weight .222-.224 gr, patching is natural linen thickness of .012 compressed .0115. Lube is the moose milk “dry patch” method that was highly recommended. Patching was cut at muzzle and a short starter was needed to get the ball started / just below the muzzle. I shot 3 shots at each load level swabbing between each shot. Powder was Goex 2f in the tube and in the pan. Loads were 1st 60gr, 2nd 70gr, 3rd 80gr, 4th was also 80 gr ( was trying to see if it was just some weird fluke) started in the lower right quadrant and moved counter clockwise for each set. 1st shot was often close to center and would start drifting away each proceeding shot. Below are pics of the target the recovered patches and the original material. I could really use some advice and help figuring out what might be going on. I was really expecting starting at such a short distance , shooting from the bench that the groups would be a lot tighter starting out. Any help would be VERY much appreciated.

 

[lwscrim]

There will be some folks with much more experience in here soon, but to my eyes your patches are showing very sharp rifling from a new barrel. Commonly called a "blown" patch. You have several choices, my favorite is shooting the rifle at least 100 time before trying again for group or you can polish the bore with JB bore paste or a piece of scotch bright to knock the sharp edges off the lands.

I like to shoot, so a box of store bought RBs and a tin of mink oil and I go have some fun. I usually use a lighter charge of 60 or 70 grains by volume of 2f BP and have fun smoking up the country side.

After the box is empty, I will try again for groups and patch checks. Good luck! Keep shooting, you will get where you want to be.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I agree with lwscrim on it looking like cutting of the patch from sharp rifling. I had a aftermarket replacement barrel for a TC Hawken that did the same thing until I had 50-75 rounds through it. I could have polished it, but figured shooting it would be more fun.

It also looks like the 70 grain charge is most accurate at this point, but that may change as the barrel smooths out. You might also try 5 grains higher or lower than the 70 grain charge. Another possibility is to used a different patch material such as cotton, but I wouldn't start changing too many things till you get more rounds through the barrel.

 

[hanshi]

Mockingbird, Lwscrim correctly pointed out that your patches are torn and burned. And I agree that one to two hundred shots are needed to break a barrel in. For patches, I go thicker, .024" unbleached canvas. The lube is mink oil in the bush and Hoppes (mostly) at the range. This allows almost unlimited shooting without any need to wipe the bore. First you'll likely need to smooth the crown and continue shooting to get the bore in shape.

 

[fishmusic]

Mockingbird,

I had much the same problems with my first gun. Take small steps like choosing a load and using 5 shots to see what happens. Increment the load by 5 grain steps and continue. Experiment with patch thickness and lube but the main thing is to make only one change at a time. You might need to take flinching out of the equation. That is still my biggest factor shooting flinters.

The other posters have given excellent advice regarding breaking in the barrel. Eventually you will eliminate variables and your gun will shoot fine.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Looking for some wisdom. So I have had my rifle for a bit now and life has finally permitted me to start shooting again. The rifle is by Brad and Shane Eming of Cabin Creek. After my first try at working up a load I am quite puzzled as things don’t seem to be going too well. I feel like there is something I am missing, here are the details. Distance 30 yards, shooting from bench with bags, temp 50 deg F, Cal .54, Ball is cast round ball in .530 by Rush Creek Roundball weight .222-.224 gr, patching is natural linen thickness of .012 compressed .0115. Lube is the moose milk “dry patch” method that was highly recommended. Patching was cut at muzzle and a short starter was needed to get the ball started / just below the muzzle. I shot 3 shots at each load level swabbing between each shot. Powder was Goex 2f in the tube and in the pan. Loads were 1st 60gr, 2nd 70gr, 3rd 80gr, 4th was also 80 gr ( was trying to see if it was just some weird fluke) started in the lower right quadrant and moved counter clockwise for each set. 1st shot was often close to center and would start drifting away each proceeding shot. Below are pics of the target the recovered patches and the original material. I could really use some advice and help figuring out what might be going on. I was really expecting starting at such a short distance , shooting from the bench that the groups would be a lot tighter starting out. Any help would be VERY much appreciated.
View attachment 415 View attachment 416 View attachment 417

 

[Rifleman1776]

Those are some awful looking patches. Get a different material. I would also surmise from those pics your ball is undersized allowing blow-by. But, I did note you said a short starter was required. That is a puzzlement. Can't help much from here. Your shooting technique might also be an issue.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

The problem is that linen ... the weave is too loose. Try tighter weave cotton patches, homespun or drill cloth in the thickness you need.

 

[Cruzatte]

I had a similar experience using some scrap linen that I had left over from a rifle frock I made. The weave was just too loose. The second thing was that my recovered patches were burnt through. The lack of adequate lubrication created that situation. What Flint625sommthie said rings true from my experience.

 

[excess650]

Thick pillow ticking, mattress ticking, or cotton duck (canvas) will help. I've shot wimpy cotton flannel that could be thumb started and the recovered patches looked better than that, but I used mink oil for lube.

 

[Gene L]

I don't have a powder measure that is fine enough to measure in 5 grain increments. I have to do that with a scale. But I'm a "good enough" shooter. I go with volume.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The rifle is by Brad and Shane Eming of Cabin Creek. ..... Patching was cut at muzzle and a short starter was needed to get the ball started / just below the muzzle.

My rifle is more than a decade old, and it's a Cabin Creek PA Mountain Rifle in .54. Mine has a Colerain barrel and I bet yours does too. It was a real nail-driver until recently. Recently it started cutting patches, and I like you cut the patches at the muzzle. I have used for years, 70 grains of 3Fg, and have taken a bunch of deer with the rifle. So I tried spit lube (always worked on the range in the past), and patch grease from olive oil and beeswax, AND I even tried leather, greased.

So I asked for help and one of the sage fellows mentioned the short-starter.....

It dawned on me that I had changed my loading procedure. I had gone from pushing the ball flush with the muzzle, to pushing the ball..., just below the muzzle. Several of my patches (two cloth pillow ticking and one of the leather) had 6 symetric holes in a nice, neat circle. The odds are pretty high against my developing equal corrosion pitting to cause 6 sharp spots on all six lands, BUT the short starter acting as a scissors against the crown at the muzzle.... hmmmmm

So tomorrow I will be going back to the range, and back to merely starting the ball even with the muzzle, and cutting the patch there, AND also seing if pre-cut patches make a difference. But I think my mystery has been solved, and I wouldn't wonder if yours has too ???

LD

 

[Dr5x]

I THINK YOUR GENERAL APPROACH IS FINE, YOUR CHARDE SHOULD BE A FEW GRAINS HEAVIER THAN 81 GRAINS, MAYBE 85,
THE CONDITION OF THE USED PATCHES INDICATE TOO LOOSE A WAEVE, TRY A DENIM THOSE PATCH LOOK TO BE NEARLY BLOWN APART.
THERE IS A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR SWABBING. I PREFER WIPING WITH JUST A DAMP PATCH, THE DECLINE OF THE GROUP MIGHT ALSO BE HELPED WITH A SLIGHTLY THICKER WIPING PATCH WHICH WOULD MORE COMPLETELY REMOVE THE RESIDUE. THE TARGETS YOU ARE USING DO NOT TEND TO FOCUS YOUR AIM BUT THAT IS A VERY MINOR QUIBBLE.

LINEN IS A LOVELY FABRIC BUT TENDS TO A LOOSER WEAVE.

Looking for some wisdom. So I have had my rifle for a bit now and life has finally permitted me to start shooting again. The rifle is by Brad and Shane Eming of Cabin Creek. After my first try at working up a load I am quite puzzled as things don’t seem to be going too well. I feel like there is something I am missing, here are the details. Distance 30 yards, shooting from bench with bags, temp 50 deg F, Cal .54, Ball is cast round ball in .530 by Rush Creek Roundball weight .222-.224 gr, patching is natural linen thickness of .012 compressed .0115. Lube is the moose milk “dry patch” method that was highly recommended. Patching was cut at muzzle and a short starter was needed to get the ball started / just below the muzzle. I shot 3 shots at each load level swabbing between each shot. Powder was Goex 2f in the tube and in the pan. Loads were 1st 60gr, 2nd 70gr, 3rd 80gr, 4th was also 80 gr ( was trying to see if it was just some weird fluke) started in the lower right quadrant and moved counter clockwise for each set. 1st shot was often close to center and would start drifting away each proceeding shot. Below are pics of the target the recovered patches and the original material. I could really use some advice and help figuring out what might be going on. I was really expecting starting at such a short distance , shooting from the bench that the groups would be a lot tighter starting out. Any help would be VERY much appreciated.
View attachment 415 View attachment 416 View attachment 417

 

[Mad Irish Jack]

Wisdom: When looking for your load, do not look for accuracy first, that's for later. Use three to 5 loads using the same components. Try different combos and of components. Try Goex, Pyro, Elephant or other powders & use 2 and 3 'F', 5 grain increment changes; Different patch thicknesses and material (cotton & linen); Try .530 and some .535 round balls from Hornady, Speer, Remington and self molded; USE the Same AIM POINT for all shots. Once you decide you like a group size with certain components, call it your load. NOW Shoot for accuracy and adjust your sites if needed. You can find a load quickly, unless your finicky. You decide if you want to be a plinker, hunter, competitor or all of it. Then go have fun, and that's in the shooting of your gun. MLers are NO different than any other firearms. Each ONE has it's own preference or load. Enjoy finding it!

 

[Mockingbird]

I humbly thank you all for the great advice. I think my next step will be to try a Pillow tick patch with a slightly slicker lube. Figure I can experiment a little while shooting to break in the barrel. I will update here next time I go out.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Mockingbird,
I'm a builder, I have a hard time believing that Brad Emig would deliver a barrel that would require 200 rounds to break in.
Do you know what barrel he used?
Rice, Getz, FCI, good quality barrels, should shoot well from the first shot.
This is NOT rocket science. A good crown will prevent tearing at the muzzle.
A .005" undersized ball, .018 to .020" tight weave patch, starting powder load at ball size, LIQUID patch lube.
With this combo there is no reason to swab between shots.
Shoot 3 shot groups, increase load by 5 grains with each group till you get the smallest group possible....... that's your load. Adjust your sights from there.

 

[Sparkitoff]

I have never been a patch voyeur. I don't care what they look like if the groups are consistently tight. If you had good groups, we wouldn't be talking about this. Rather than blaming the rifling and hoping things get better after much shooting, or (worse) going right to lapping (permanently altering the rifling) I would deal with the components that you have. Start with a little more lube on those patches. Dry spots or edges can make them inconsistent. Not enough lube will allow the heat to burn the material. I'm not saying to soak them. If you used 7:1, try 6:1 or 7:1.5. Next, I would be careful to short start the ball to the same depth. Also, orient the sprue up and not touching the patch. Now, if there is no improvement to the groups, switch to a different patch material and repeat. Also, if you bought those balls I bet there is as much as 5 grains difference between your lowest and highest weight and that is not going to help things. At least sort 5 for a 5 shot group. Don't worry so much where the point of impact is, just try to achieve a tight group.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Patch condition IS important. If they are doing their job, they should look reusable.
First 7 shots from a Rice barrel.

 

[Mockingbird]

Mockingbird,
Do you know what barrel he used?
Rice, Getz, FCI, good quality barrels, should shoot well from the first shot.

Flintandsteel- I don't remember the maker off hand. I think it was Rice but I don't have the info here at work. I do remember it was round rifling and had a progressive twist. Also I am not blaming the gun at all. I am sure it is error on my part. My guess based on what everyone has said is that the patch wasn't thick enough and that the "dry" patch was too dry. Also that is a nice group!

I have never been a patch voyeur. I don't care what they look like if the groups are consistently tight. If you had good groups, we wouldn't be talking about this. Rather than blaming the rifling and hoping things get better after much shooting, or (worse) going right to lapping (permanently altering the rifling) I would deal with the components that you have. Start with a little more lube on those patches. Dry spots or edges can make them inconsistent. Not enough lube will allow the heat to burn the material. I'm not saying to soak them. If you used 7:1, try 6:1 or 7:1.5. Next, I would be careful to short start the ball to the same depth. Also, orient the sprue up and not touching the patch. Now, if there is no improvement to the groups, switch to a different patch material and repeat. Also, if you bought those balls I bet there is as much as 5 grains difference between your lowest and highest weight and that is not going to help things. At least sort 5 for a 5 shot group. Don't worry so much where the point of impact is, just try to achieve a tight group.

Sparkitoff- as I said above I think patch and lube adjustment will be my course of action. As for the balls I short started to the same depth each time before cutting the patch, sprew was always as centered as I could possibly make it. As far as the ball goes they were store bought but each on was weighed individually when I got them, I then set aside the ones that were closest in their own bag for the very purpose of working up a load. Each ball weighed between .222 and .224 grn.

 

[jime444]

At 25 yards, the group should be a no bigger than a nickel. A good barrel will do that easily. At 50 and 100 yards, 1.5in and 3.0in groups are readily possible in good conditions and a solid bench. You’ve got a good start, keep trying to improve, consistency in everything you do is the key. Especially, wiping between shots. Good luck.