Single trigger expected pound pull?

[Larry (Omaha)]

Making my first single trigger flintlock rifle. All my other flintlocks have double set triggers. It will be a swamped Early Lancaster with Rice barrel and Deluxe Siler lock. I am curious as to what one can expect for trigger pull weight, if the geometry and lock functions are in good order? I finished the install today and so far am please with the results. I did not do any adjustments to the lock with respect to springs or fine tuning. I shoot paper, not critters, so a light pull is what I prefer. Your input would be appreciated.
Flintlocklar

 

[Artificer]

I asked a similar question of Dave Person in his thread on the Late Flint English Rifle. His first reply was:

Hi Gus,

I am pretty sure the trigger pull will be about 2lbs, maybe a little more and with no creep. I typically can do this with a simple trigger and using only the sear on the lock for tensioning the trigger and eliminating any trigger rattle. Usually, I do not have to resort to a leaf or feather spring on the trigger itself to keep tension.

dave

When I replied I was surprised a bit about that, here is what he replied:

Hi Gus,
It will be light and safe. There is a little secret to this, which I will share. I try to make the angle of the top of the trigger lever the same as the angle that the sear makes on the lock plate from its pivot screw. They should be parallel and the contact about the middle or slightly closer to the trigger pin of the trigger lever. That gives optimum leverage and minimum creep to the trigger.

dave


Hope this helps,

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Dave's account is a pretty fair description of the single trigger on the GRRW Leman I had built. Sweet.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have only put in two pinned single triggers, with the sear contact 5/16 from the pivot, one is 3.1# and the other is 2.5#.

 

[Artificer]

Larry,

I hope this doesn't bring down the wrath of the gods, but in case you are not real familiar with trigger pull weights, here are examples of guns you may have fired.

North South Skirmish Association minimum "Long Gun" Trigger pull is 3 lbs after a trigger job is done, though many are set between 3 1/2 to 4 lbs. The usual for those UnCivil War guns is at least minimum of 8 lbs or more.

M1903 and A3's minimum pull is 3 1/2 lbs. and average is around 4-4 1/2 lbs.

M1 Garand and M1A minimum pull is 4 1/2 and average is around 5-6 lbs.

These figures are weighed per NSSA, NRA, IMLAC regulations with real trigger pull weights and not the spring scales that won't give as accurate of measurements.

Gus

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Larry,

I hope this doesn't bring down the wrath of the gods, but in case you are not real familiar with trigger pull weights, here are examples of guns you may have fired.

North South Skirmish Association minimum "Long Gun" Trigger pull is 3 lbs after a trigger job is done, though many are set between 3 1/2 to 4 lbs. The usual for those UnCivil War guns is at least minimum of 8 lbs or more.

M1903 and A3's minimum pull is 3 1/2 lbs. and average is around 4-4 1/2 lbs.

M1 Garand and M1A minimum pull is 4 1/2 and average is around 5-6 lbs.

These figures are weighed per NSSA, NRA, IMLAC regulations with real trigger pull weights and not the spring scales that won't give as accurate of measurements.

Gus

Thanks for the help Gus, I am more interested in what can be obtained, (A Sweet low# pull) rather than what other guns have. I have a Zouve and Brown Bess for factory made gun comparison. Dave and Eric's post were good info.
Flintlocklar

 

[Artificer]

" I am more interested in what can be obtained, (A Sweet low# pull) rather than what other guns have"

I understand fully.

What I have found over many years of "working trigger pulls" on both modern and muzzle loading guns, is that different people have different thoughts/explanations of what a "(A Sweet low# pull)" is. I have also seen a lot of misinformation posted on trigger pull weights of muzzle loading guns, because most people do not have accurate trigger pull weights to check the trigger pulls. Now Please understand I am in no way suggesting most or any of those people are deliberately intending to misrepresent the information, rather in my experience it has been from a lack of experience in the accurate procedures of weighing trigger pulls.

My intention was just to give folks a "base line" of trigger pulls they may have already used/felt, as a comparison.

I also wanted to mention I have no doubt Dave Person's info is accurate.

Gus

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have good friend who is a gunsmith and serious M/L competitive shooter, he has all the latest high tech gunsmithing tools in his shop. We checked the trigger pull on my guns with his fancy digital trigger pull scale.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

I have received good info here and thanks. I do have a Wheeler digital trigger gauge, I purchase for adjusting my Zouve for Territorial musket matches. Musket trigger can be no more than three # pull. If anyone is thinking of purchasing a trigger gauge, this is a good unit. It will give live unites of measure (pounds and ounces) or can display peak unites of measure. About $50.00

 

[Eric Krewson]

That is what my friend and I used.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Gus,
The reason for trying to make the top of the trigger bar as close to parallel with the sear bar is that the force of trigger pull is directed fully in the direction you want the sear to move (up). Representing things as force vectors from high school physics, if the trigger bar is at a greater angle, there is a vector of force pushing backward and well as a vector pushing up. If the angle was less, there is a vector pushing forward on the sear as well as a vector pushing up. If parallel, there is one strong vector pushing up.

dave

 

[B.Habermehl]

My method of setting up single triggers closely paralleles Dave’s. Typically they average about three pounds or a bit less. I personally feel set triggers are a unnecessary liability issue for a gunbuilder. As customers can easily adjust them to scarey sensitivity. For Pennsylvania’s blue tailed cold late flintlock season I believe set triggers are a hazard. I seldom will build a set triggered gun unless I know the customer personally. Single triggers can be set up to be both safe and light. My version of light is about three lbs or a frog hair less. BJH

 

[Joe B.]

4 pounds is fine. Make sure the sear to tumbler angles are proper so it stays cocked if "bumped".