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"neck" knives

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Jaeger

40 Cal.
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
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Location
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Okay guys: I've read some provocative comments recently on other agendas about neck knives. Since I'm always learning, what are your thoughts, opinions, etc. about historical correctness, geographical area, knife size, adornment of knife sheath and so on. Let's hear it!
 
Worn predominately by eastern woodlands and great lake tribes, very HC if the right accoutrement is worn.

Brain tan hide, various quilling and beading techniques.

They also would have a rawhide or bark liner.

Knives WERE NOT the small "buckskinner" variety you see all over, those are a modern fad. Rather English trade knives, scalpers, roach bellys, and simple kitchen knives of the day. There was no standard kneck knife.

99% of the so called neck knives you see are not HC in any way, shape or form. A good representation can be easily made by studying period images and examples. The most HC would again be a 18th century reproduction of a simple kitchen knife of the period. I know that indeed is not "fancy" enough for many but that is HC.
 
An image I saw had a native with the full-size knife in a sheath, the strap worn over the opposite shoulder and the sheath tucked into the thong holding up the leggings & breechcloth. It was not something dangling in the way and getting into everything when you bent over. Damned nuisance the ones you see today - the knife really too small to be useful for anything but eating or cleaning fingernails and always in the way.
 
Absolutely, many have no idea what a neck knife SHOULD BE.

Native people were individuals who greatly understood functionality and quality in accoutrements. They certainly would not have carried the small "neck knives" of today for the very reason you mentioned. To dang small for anything but picking ones teeth after supper!
 
Crewdawg445 said:
Native people were individuals who greatly understood functionality and quality in accoutrements.
Your right.
So where have you found documentation of a "neck knife" being worn or used by NDN?
Your supporting size, quill, beads and even sheath material as proper "neck knife" as used,,
Where is that documentation?
 
Post by Chuck Burrow on another site:
All references to neck knives of the period show they were not short bladed, but rather the standard 6-7" bladed boucheron style knives or the 5-6" bladed English case knives, for which here are plenty of original images available. While there may have been some shorter bladed neck knives, the idea for the short bladed neck knife is a modern re-enactorism so if you want to be PC/HC are the knives to copy are the originals.....

example:

here's a French one in the British Museum with sheath - the overall length of 26.5 cm = 10.43" - handles were usually in the 3 3/4" - 4" length leaving a blade of 6-6.4".
http://www.britishmuseum.org/resea...60&from=ad&toDate=1810&to=ad&view=list&page=1

Case Knives: http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/images/neck-knife.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e201/nytrekker/originals/caldwellitems.jpg

some originals:

The first three are Mohawk, the next two are Iroquois


That should get you started - for more info on eastern Woodland neck knives of the era in question I would HIGHLY recommend checking with the folks on the Frontierfolk.net forum http://frontierfolk.net/phpBB/
 
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Black Hand beat me to it but would you like me to aquire all the findings from my brother who happens to a professor and liaison of native studies at Ohio University and serves on the tribal board?

Ond need not look far to find propper documentation on native neck knives of the period.

If you would like I'll certainly refer you to my brother and let him truly educate you on Native American culture, heritage and accoutrements, much better than I can. He's very well respected and very knowledgeable, but I'll tell you now... Don't call him an NDN...

That said, my neck knives and shealths are all based on findings he used for an educational presentation. All styles were very similar in design. Styling seemed to be left to the owner. Quilling became all but non existent when glass beads were introduced during first contact and trading began.

However stylings and decor did differ between those of the great lakes tribes and further south.

Knives in the images were no different than sizes to a standard belt knife, one particular image was that of a English trade knife. I have choosen this for one of my neck knives along with glass bead edging. Images will follow later, have to be a grown up for awhile!
 
Worn predominately by eastern woodlands and great lake tribes, very HC if the right accoutrement is worn.

Brain tan hide, various quilling and beading techniques.

They also would have a rawhide or bark liner.

Knives WERE NOT the small "buckskinner" variety you see all over, those are a modern fad. Rather English trade knives, scalpers, roach bellys, and simple kitchen knives of the day. There was no standard kneck knife.

Yep, and apparently NOT often seen on whites not living as Indians.

As for the smaller knives having no use except for food and finger nails, well, I wear one as a neck knife when hunting, because it's in a handy location, AND it is small and very sharp, and I find it excellent both for field dressing a deer as well as for skinning.

So I'm wrong, but it does work, and the rawhide liner in the doeskin sheath does prevent it from going through the sheath when I put it away.

LD
 
Love the "idea" of neck knives and have put together several attempts. But I made an important discovery, for me at least. I'm gonna call them flatlander knives, cuzz they just don't work out so well in steep terrain.

Leave them outside your shirt and they swing forward to tangle everything when you lean over and they swing away from your body. Let them grab a big chunk of brush and you'll know more than you want about snaring kritters by the neck.

Shove them down inside your shirt, and short knives, sheath and all, poke you real good somewhere between sternum and belly button. Long knives poke you in a real tender spot just south of your belly button. :shocked2:

Nice idea and some real purty examples in history. But mine are all hanging on the wall now and not around my neck.
 
Crewdawg445 said:
would you like me to aquire all the findings from my brother,, serves on the tribal board? Don't call him an NDN...
:confused:

However stylings and decor did differ between those of the great lakes tribes and further south.
No kidding.
Great Lakes tribes,, or do you mean the very beginning of "fur trade" era?
French, Hudson bay, Native, White men, trade, that lead to Metes and what they call "voyageur"?
Or white mans interpretation of history as we know it? Legend be damned because there's no "written" proof?
Who brought the steel knife over here?
Surely not just the mills of Sheffield,, Who brought "pots" to "trade"?
Who brought glass beads? (to trade?)

Oh,, and to help ya out a bit,, they didn't trade with just the Americas,,, :doh:
 
Thank you for the information, I'm rather aware they didn't just trade with the "Americas".

Like I mentioned, if you would like to converse with a true expert, I can make that happen for you, as I will admit I'm certainly not and have no problem admitting it.

So, really... Jaeger asked about neck knives... I feel responsible for the HC rant, if you desire a little knife for tasks by all means get yourself a well made sheath and knife! As LD previously mentioned the little blades certainly can he handy. Really you have to go by what YOU want, not what we all say. I find nothing wrong with using a smaller neck knife for hunting tasks and what have you. If you do decide on one, TOTW offers many nice little blades. :hatsoff:
 
Thanks for all the responses! I've learned even more about neck knives, and I don't think anybody got tooooooo hot. If there are more opinions or more information or historical references, please share them.
 
Crewdawg445 said:
Like I mentioned, if you would like to converse with a true expert, I can make that happen for you, as I will admit I'm certainly not and have no problem admitting it.

I don't know about bugging him myself, but if you are up to asking him stuff I'd be curious to know whether the neck knives were intended for everyday utility use or, as I've seen hinted at, were reserved for scalping or war in general and thus had a distinctively religious/ceremonial aspect to them, and whether the evidence for either of those positions comes from period sources or modern oral tradition.

I think that is an important point to clear up.
 
I'll add one point about neck knives I forgot to mention:

I don't like them and don't use them mostly because it takes 2 hands for me to draw one from the sheath, while only one hand to draw one from a sheath on my belt. Since I usually have something in the other hand (like a rifle), using a neck knife is just plain awkward. My neck, my knife and my rifle, but that's the way it works for me.
 
Something about a razor sharp object hanging around my neck that makes me nervous.

Not HC, but considered A G Russell’s Hunter Scalpel a few years ago. 2-1/4” blade, 4-3/4” OAL, push button thumb release. Orderred, received and ultimately returned one. Although about as safe as a neck knife could be, just didn’t see it as practical.

For cutting at the muzzle in the field, use my sheath knife - second hurried shot is the exception, so dealing with a sheath knife is no big deal. At the range use a straight razor. May take 25-30 shots in a session and a sharp straight razor is perfect for the task, at least for me, when trimming patches at the muzzle.

Whether HC or not, just don’t see a neck knife as practical or safe.
 
A neck knife sheath I made some time ago. I had purchased one of those small knives that rendezvous vendors have on their table (one of those knives where the most used part of the blade is made utterly useless by piercings/cutouts and generally incorrect in design and materials), made the sheath and decorated with blue beads, dark blue silver-center beads and Dentalium shells. It has been a decoration for years.....

 
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